Left hander

[KPC]

Okay, now I'm gonna stick my neck out here and ask a long time unresolved question that constantly comes back to niggle me. Thing is, no one asked - and there's been quite a few - has ever given a definitive answer. So excuse me all of those tech-heads out there who are no doubt gonna say, "Derr," but I REALLY NEED TO KNOW.

A while back my brother and I were standing waiting and waiting and waiting for service at a Vauxhall garage that shall remain nameless (in Crawley) where there was a mock-up of the 2000 Vectra. Says my brother, whose tech knowledge is greater than mine and quite impressive (I just enjoy racing, which is why F1 is a double-whammy NOT for me), to the salesman, "Why are they left hand drives?" Fair question. Says salesman, "Because both the drivers (Plato/Muller)are foreign." My bruv and I looked at one another. We looked at the salesman. We told the salesman this wasn't right, politely so as not to upset him too much. The salesman wouldn't have it as he retreated out of the side door. And these people are flogging us cars!!

So, left hander circuit stories, all the others cars have it stories, etc aside. Does anyone really know for sure?

[kristof14]

I asked this question on here a while ago, apparently due to the nature of circuits mainly going clockwise there are more right handers than left handers on the circuits. Therefore a left hand drive car gives the driver a better view of the corner than a right hand drive car where the front right A pillar sits right in the drivers view.

[Ann]

The general consensus when this has been discussed before seems to be that manufacturers build their cars to be left hand drive from the outset and then convert them to right hand drive.

This means that standard LHD cars do have better weight distribution because this is the way they were designed from the outset. Putting the wheel on the right upsets the balance of the car.

I got a reply from Phil Bennett when I posed this question elsewhere some time back:
"There are different reasons depending on who you are.

As a driver for example you would want a LHD car as your vision is greatly improved. As has already said. With circuits being mainly clockwise you get more right hand corners and so with LHD the A-post doesn't hinder your ability to look into the corner.

From an engineers point of view the choice between LHD and RHD maybe influenced by packaging. For instance. If the engine builder demands a particular exhaust then this may mean that things like packaging the steering rack might mean you have to run LHD or RHD.

Remember the super touring 406 - well that was a superb car in the DTM with Aiello but a dog in the BTCC. This was because the UK car was RHD and couldn't package the same engine from the French built DTM car, which was LHD."

[racer69]

I posted a very similiar question in the Aussie forum a while back. Your answers maybe in here http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...eft+hand+drive

[Peter Mallett]

Good topic. But what about balance? If you are on the "outside" in a right hand corner wouldn't that offset any vision advantage?

[KPC]

Thanks for replies... intelligent comment at last!! I would have to agree that sitting on the nearside of the car on a right corner must surely have balance issues. The A post point is a good one though, wish I'd thought of that.

Quote:

This means that standard LHD cars do have better weight distribution because this is the way they were designed from the outset. Putting the wheel on the right upsets the balance of the car.

A fair point. But our arguement, which distressed the salesman, is that Vauxhall's are factory made RHD, as far as I'm aware. Therefore by making them LHD the reverse is the case, the balance is upset....?

[touringlegend]

Maybe they were just Vauxhall badged Opels?

[KPC]

True. Isn't that cheating or am I splitting hairs?

[maplex]

I can’t believe that a factory LHD car is better balanced than a factory RHD car. Surely the cars are completely stripped and rebuilt.

[racer69]

Originally posted by touringlegend
Maybe they were just Vauxhall badged Opels?

The early Super Touring Vectra's were homologated by Opel, and just rebadged Vauxhall for Britain (and Holden for Australia), i'm not sure whether that was still the case in 2000 though.

[KPC]

The left/right wheel balance issue doesn't really stand all things considered, especially when you have a twelve stone driver sitting behind it. I'd have to go with the A post theory myself, whadayfink Paul? Have we got to the bottom of it? Let's go see that Salesman again.

[Super Tourer]

I thought it used to be based on the car that was originally homologated, hence the early ST Vectra's were homolgated as Opels, the 99 cars were Vauxhall's and RHD.

The Honda's and MG's are right hookers, which fits in with their original manfacturing configuration. Maybe the Astra's were homologated as Opel's, if this rule is still current.

[KA]

Originally posted by Super Tourer
I thought it used to be based on the car that was originally homologated, hence the early ST Vectra's were homolgated as Opels, the 99 cars were Vauxhall's and RHD.

The Honda's and MG's are right hookers, which fits in with their original manfacturing configuration. Maybe the Astra's were homologated as Opel's, if this rule is still current.

I'm not usre about the homologation theory- MG build RHD cars for the UK, but LHD for overseas markets, and presumably either must be acceptable for homologation or anyone running a UK-prepared (RHD) version of a foreign car would be having constant problems over homologation- take as an example the Production class Peugeot 306- presumably they're RHD, but the homologation would have been carried out by Peugeot in France where they'd be LHD........

Engine bay packaging etc must be significant- I know I've read that certain models of cars which aren't available on the UK market in RHD form are very difficult to convert to RHD because for example the exhaust manifold is in the way of where the steering column needs to run etc

Back in the mists of time, when TWR took the Group A Jag XJS down to Bathurst in 1985, the cars were RHD, as they'd always been- I'm sure I've read somewhere that when they were planning to go back in 86 (which eventually fell through due to sponsorship issues) they actually converted a car to LHD for testing as the team felt that configuration would suit the circuit better

[Peter Mallett]

Ah but the Jag has a fore 'n aft engine and gubbins on both sides of it so your point about driver's side is really not that relevant.

I can see the point when you look at east/west engines and IIRC the Mondeo worked better in Germany than it did in the UK. Could that have been the reason?

[KPC]

I've opened a can of worms on this one. It's like the X Files, I have more questions now than I ever did.

But seriously, from the points raised it is apparent that positioning has it's pros and cons. It seems to make more sense to me that if yer on a track making mostly right turns, you'll need as much of a wide angled view of the apex/corner and clear windscreen as you can get. Okay, granted that we're not talking ford Focus rear quarter panel like obstruction (anyone ever reversed a Focus - I nearly killed a traffic warden), but the advantages are there nonetheless.

[KPC]

However, returning to the point that any view advantage is countered by the weight distribution, can this not in turn be countered by tyre wear issues. If the driver is siting to the right then the car will naturally want to veer in that bit easier, but the wear on the tyres will be greater. If a driver is sitting to the left then the pressure on the tyres will not be so great and the left/tight wear more even. Right hand tyre wear is obviously a major problem and so having the driver as a counter-balance would have it's benefits.

[sceptic]

Originally posted by KPC
Okay, granted that we're not talking ford Focus rear quarter panel like obstruction (anyone ever reversed a Focus - I nearly killed a traffic warden.

It can't be worse than reversing a Vauxhall Tigra.

[KPC]

Or worse than being a rear seat passenger in a Tigra... I had this diesel Focus thing for a day. Quite a nippy little runner, but when it came to reversing I discovered I was actually in a tank.

[Peter Mallett]

But again the balance thing puzzles me because you can counter that by clever suspension set up. So tyre wear won't be a problem.

They did discover that placing the drive near the centre and lower down helped the handling of the car. So there is something in positioning, but I'm not sure about LH or RH drive.

[KPC]

To sit a driver centrally makes the most sense, although the fact that they don't (do the rules dictate?) suggests it's no great issue. Again, I'm tended to go with the field of vision theory as there are just too many pros and cons with balance. Or it could just be as simple as the left hand Opel idea. But as the cars are totally stripped down and rebuilt I think this less likely.

[touringlegend]

They'd probably need to modify the floorpan of a car if they were to sit a driver in the centre, as there's the tunnel there where the gear linkage comes through (and if RWD the driveshaft to the back).

Of course, once you do that, the gear linkage would need to be modified too.

[KPC]

And then the body of the car is altered, which no doubt would put it outside of the regulations.

[AussieV8]

Allan Moffat used LHD and RHD Mazda Rx7's in the early 80's. He preferred the LHD over the 2nd car RHD he said it wore its tyres better using the weight distribution.

[racer69]

Moffat was also always a big fan of LHD at Bathurst, because it was a big help at places like the Cutting, Dipper and Forests Elbow, as they were left handers.

Correct me if i'm wrong but at Bathurst '84 the #43 Mazda was LHD and the #42 car was RHD? If that was the case he started the race in the LHD (got a nice close up of the pit straight wall thanks to Steve Masterton) car, then when that broke he stepped into the RHD Handsford Mazda for the rest.

[AussieV8]

Originally posted by racer69
Moffat was also always a big fan of LHD at Bathurst, because it was a big help at places like the Cutting, Dipper and Forests Elbow, as they were left handers.

Correct me if i'm wrong but at Bathurst '84 the #43 Mazda was LHD and the #42 car was RHD? If that was the case he started the race in the LHD (got a nice close up of the pit straight wall thanks to Steve Masterton) car, then when that broke he stepped into the RHD Handsford Mazda for the rest.

Its good to see a historian on there sport yes you were right and he finished 3rd.