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26 Nov 2003, 18:14 (Ref:795302)
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Rookie
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 94
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a stupid question
can anyone tell me what a tank slapper is? i keep hearing when i watch races but i have no idead what they are talking about.can someone explaine this for me?thanks
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26 Nov 2003, 18:30 (Ref:795320)
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#2 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 8,125
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Isn't it "slapping" the sidepods against the wall (or the opposition), leaving a mark but not disabling the car? At least that's the way I've always understood it...
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__________________
Don't make a fuss, just get on the bus! |
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26 Nov 2003, 18:37 (Ref:795326)
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#3 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,153
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My understanding of it is that it's getting opposite lock coming out of a corner, but not necessarily touching a wall.
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26 Nov 2003, 18:41 (Ref:795328)
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#4 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 8,125
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That may well be, Cork. Anything that "slaps" the fuel against the side of the tank?
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__________________
Don't make a fuss, just get on the bus! |
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26 Nov 2003, 18:42 (Ref:795329)
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#5 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,147
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It derives from pre-fuel-cell days. It's opposite lock twitch, causing fuel to slap the sides of the tank(s).
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__________________
... Since all men live in darkness, who believes something is not a test of whether it is true or false. I have spent years trying to get people to ask simple questions: What is the evidence, and what does it mean? -Bill James |
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26 Nov 2003, 19:30 (Ref:795372)
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#6 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 497
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cork and paul are correct.
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26 Nov 2003, 20:11 (Ref:795409)
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#7 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 995
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Uhh...no none of you are correct. Tank Slapper derived from motorcycle racing, and was then adapted and used incorrectly for race cars. A tank slapper in motorcycle terms is when a motorcylce gets loose in a corner and the rider corrects by steering opposite the slide, often times if the rider corrects too much the handlbars flip back the other way and literally slaps the gas tank. At that point usually the rider flies off his bike and crashes. Somewhere along the lines somebody started using the term with cars. Its when a car is sliding and the driver applys too much opposite lock and the cars snaps back too far in the other direction. Sometimes the driver saves it, and sometimes the driver ends up spinning in the opposite direction of the original slide. I should also mention its not necessarily caused by applying too much opposite lock, but also can be caused by simply not centering the steering wheel quickly enough after applying opposite lock.
This is not be confused with the "death-wiggle" in which a driver corrects for a small slide a little too much and then has to recorrect sometimes multiple times to get the car to go straight again. This consists of several ULTRA quick seesaw motions of the steering wheel. Last edited by jjspierx; 26 Nov 2003 at 20:14. |
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__________________
"You will never know the feeling of a driver when winning a race. The helmet hides feelings that cannot be understood." - Ayrton Senna |
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26 Nov 2003, 20:59 (Ref:795470)
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#8 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 656
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Case reference - McNish vs. Armco, Suzuka, Oct.12th 2002
http://www.f1-pics.com/japan02/japan2002-024.htm example of a 180mph 'tank slapper'... |
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26 Nov 2003, 21:27 (Ref:795487)
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#9 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,147
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Jeremy, you may be right - or not. The tank-slapper in autos is rather different than in bikes - the steering input is still very active in cars, whereas in bikes the bikes are pretty much going to go straight. Also, the causes are quite different, and much more part of driver input in cars.
About the only thing the two share is the speed of the steering changes, which is why I say you may be correct - the driver's feel may be analogous to the rider's. |
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__________________
... Since all men live in darkness, who believes something is not a test of whether it is true or false. I have spent years trying to get people to ask simple questions: What is the evidence, and what does it mean? -Bill James |
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27 Nov 2003, 01:14 (Ref:795669)
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#10 | ||
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Rookie
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 63
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Soory to have to correct everyone, but, at least over here in the US, a "tank slapper" is any time a car hits the wall or barriers sideways . It stems from the old days when the fuel tanks were in the sidepods, hence if you slapped the wall with the sidepods, you were literally slapping the fuel tanks.
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27 Nov 2003, 03:51 (Ref:795724)
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#11 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 995
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http://metrohog.ia.net/images/200202...otorcycles.pdf
http://www.slash5.net/org/Tank%20Slapper.html http://www.exupbrotherhood.org/gloss...ml#tankslapper Those are some articles about tank slappers, you will notice that they are motorcylce articles, because that is where the term derived from. There are other uses for the term, but they stem from motorcylcles. Paul - yes, I realize that a tank slapper is rather different in a car than a motorcycle, I was not trying to say they were the same, I just meant, that the term derived from motorcylce terms, and is now also used in car terms, although the meaning of what it is has obviously changed. I did a search on google for "tank slapper" and almost all I found was motorcycle stuff. However I did find some pictures of cars doing 'tank slappers' or so the pictures were captioned, and none of them hit any walls, as MA2 has stated. I've seen CART races where Tommy Kendall has used the term Tank Slapper and no wall was hit. In fact 2 years ago Elkhart Lake, when they had the stream running through the track and race was red flagged for awhile. At one point a driver went through that, and did a "tank slapper" in the definition that I provided above, and no wall was hit, and TK stated the term tank slapper, I remember it well. Gi-gav posted a perfect example of a tank slapper in F1 at Suzuka last year. Going around 190R or whatever they used to call it, at the exit he got loose, he corrected, and immediately shot off the exit of the track and violently hit the wall. The pictures unfortunately, show the car AFTER the tank slapper and as its on its way off track into the wall. However if any of you saw the wreck on TV you'd probably remember it, one of the nastiest wrecks all season. |
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__________________
"You will never know the feeling of a driver when winning a race. The helmet hides feelings that cannot be understood." - Ayrton Senna |
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27 Nov 2003, 07:43 (Ref:795803)
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#12 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 174
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TANK SLAPPER = PANTS CRAPPER
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27 Nov 2003, 11:27 (Ref:795952)
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#13 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,301
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For what it's worth, I have always related the term "tank slapper" to bikes not cars also.
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__________________
A good friend will come bail you out of jail. A true freind will be sitting next to you saying "Damn...that was fun!" |
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27 Nov 2003, 16:42 (Ref:796223)
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#14 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 169
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I think flatspot has it right, the typical misunderstood slang term applied to the wrong thing.
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27 Nov 2003, 16:55 (Ref:796232)
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#15 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,147
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...perhaps just an appropriation, rather than a misunderstanding.
(After all, how did sportscar fans become anoraks?) |
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__________________
... Since all men live in darkness, who believes something is not a test of whether it is true or false. I have spent years trying to get people to ask simple questions: What is the evidence, and what does it mean? -Bill James |
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27 Nov 2003, 23:26 (Ref:796520)
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#16 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 8,125
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The modern-day version of the "Tank-Slapper"...
http://www3.sympatico.ca/gmcadorey/Tank-Slapper.mpg BE ADVISED... It's 2 Megs, and it's off-topic... |
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__________________
Don't make a fuss, just get on the bus! |
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28 Nov 2003, 00:19 (Ref:796549)
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#17 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 656
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Quote:
I study defence analysis, so i'm used to that kind of video, just not the soundtrack!! Last edited by gi_gav; 28 Nov 2003 at 00:22. |
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28 Nov 2003, 10:12 (Ref:796884)
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#18 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 995
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I've see that video before. Pretty incredible footage, and thats definitely a tank getting slapped.
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__________________
"You will never know the feeling of a driver when winning a race. The helmet hides feelings that cannot be understood." - Ayrton Senna |
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29 Nov 2003, 00:22 (Ref:797655)
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#19 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,802
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well folks, its definatley a moto thing misappropriated for cars.
I've had tank slappers on the street and on the track, been lucky enough never to have been high sided though. On a bike, when the rear suspension loads up, or the rear slides and then catches, these two occurances can result in tank slappers. I've always figured it was like a big amount of energy being sent up to the front end, and depending on the bike frame and fork assembly, it can do weird things-note that I'm about 20 years behind bike technology first-hand-experience-wise, but I think my theory and explanation stands. Like I said, I've been lucky enough to have them happen when I was able to stay on the throttle and ride it out, keeping the front end light and letting it do its wiggle waggle thing and then settle down. It's rather impressive how this seemingly giant invisible hand grabs the bars and does the whacka-whacka faster than you can think about going for a turf down the track... Last edited by djb; 29 Nov 2003 at 00:23. |
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29 Nov 2003, 21:56 (Ref:798454)
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#20 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 995
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Wow, and only 12 posts AFTER I originally stated it.
 Thanks for backing me up djb and Flatspot. Nobody ever believes the new guy.
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__________________
"You will never know the feeling of a driver when winning a race. The helmet hides feelings that cannot be understood." - Ayrton Senna |
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