deFerran

SevenGrain · 4 Sep 2001, 02:31 (Ref:140947)

Gil deFerran could actually win the championship this year without winning an event. That would be a first in CART, Al Unser Sr. twice won championships with only one win (83 and 85) and Keke Rosberg won an F1 title with just one win in 82.

Does anybody know if a major racing series has ever crowned a champion that didn't win at least one race?

GanjaGrizz · 4 Sep 2001, 03:37 (Ref:140954)

Hell it happens almost every year in NASCAR...lol

Also there have been 10 different winners this year so far. Whats the record for different winners in 1 year?
Now the CART Series goes to the oval at Lausitz Germany and the week after they will go to the new oval in Rockingham England.

**gomick** · 4 Sep 2001, 03:38 (Ref:140955)

emilio alazamora won the 1999 fim 125cc moto gp world championship without winning a race

mac · 4 Sep 2001, 07:15 (Ref:141001)

You beat me to it gomick!!!

Laagri · 4 Sep 2001, 10:30 (Ref:141050)

It's almost happened in CART too in the few years I've been watching it. Bräck could have been champion last year without winning. And the year that Vasser won (96?), Unser Jr was still in with a chance at the last race and I don't think he'd won all season.

But this leads on to the inevitable question of the scoring system. Is it right that a driver who hasn't won any races at all is leading the championship? I know consistency is important, but still. And I know the system as it stands leads to extra excitement for the fans, but is it fair on the drivers? Anyway, those are really rhetorical questions because I'm sure this topic has been done to death already.

GanjaGrizz · 4 Sep 2001, 13:48 (Ref:141158)

The scoring system for CART is fine in my book. The NASCAR point system is the one that is really screwed up, that could be a reason why I cant watch it. The winner at the end of the season usually has something like 4000 points(something like that)... now thats funny.
A drivers can finish 35 and still score many points.

KC · 4 Sep 2001, 15:03 (Ref:141179)

The NASCAR points system rewards consistency over winning. There was an example in one of ythe lesser classes a few years ago where a driver never finished better than 8th but no worse than 13th and won the title because his competition took a lot of points off one another and suffered a lot of DNFs. It illustrated the major shortcoming of the system.

I do like CART's points schedule better than F1's because it rewards the pole position and leader of most laps.

Liz · 4 Sep 2001, 16:20 (Ref:141203)

"To finish first, first you must finish."

And to win the championship, you must finish in the points. Lots of people who have won races have not finished very many of the races that they did not win. (And thanks to Kamikaze Kenny, that nearly included both the Penske drivers this week ... he rammed Helio in the first lap and hit Gil later on, before concentrating his fire on Carpentier for the rest of the race.) Gil is a neat, conservative pilot who keeps out of trouble, just like Prost used to, and is there at the end. Helio is more fun to watch, but he takes too many chances.

Laagri · 4 Sep 2001, 17:10 (Ref:141214)

Just as an experiment, I took this year's CART championship and used F1 scoring, and this is what came out.

1. Bräck 39 (change of position +1)
2. Castroneves 36 (+1)
3. Andretti 33 (+1)
4. de Ferran 32 (-3)
5. Franchitti 24 (=)
6. Carpentier 22(+3)
7. Dixon 22 (-1)
8. Moreno 21 (=)
9. da Matta 20 (-2)
10. Tracy 15 (+1)

Actually I was surprised that the differences were so small.

Raoul Duke · 4 Sep 2001, 17:38 (Ref:141228)

The fact that Gil is leading the championship(and hasn't won a race) has got nothing to do with the scoring system, but rather, it's a result of to much inconsistency by the front runners(Helio, Brack, etc). Gil was simply there to pick up the points that the others did not, just like he did last year. Gil is not the fastest or the strongest driver out there but he is one of the most consistent and that's what won him the title last year and it may well win him the title again this year. And I have no problems with that, the championship should be about consistency and about who makes the fewest mistakes.

GanjaGrizz · 4 Sep 2001, 18:01 (Ref:141240)

Quote:

Originally posted by Laagri
Just as an experiment, I took this year's CART championship and used F1 scoring, and this is what came out.

1. Bräck 39 (change of position +1)
2. Castroneves 36 (+1)
3. Andretti 33 (+1)
4. de Ferran 32 (-3)
5. Franchitti 24 (=)
6. Carpentier 22(+3)
7. Dixon 22 (-1)
8. Moreno 21 (=)
9. da Matta 20 (-2)
10. Tracy 15 (+1)

Actually I was surprised that the differences were so small.

Carpentier and Dixon are tied, its much closer then you would think.
Franchitti in 5th place also surprises me.

paulzinho · 5 Sep 2001, 00:12 (Ref:141494)

Record number of winners in a year was 11 last season.

floid2000 · 5 Sep 2001, 19:37 (Ref:142030)

Gil is no Alain Prost.

**gomick** · 6 Sep 2001, 01:58 (Ref:142209)

alain is no gil de ferran!

, huh?

snakepit27 · 6 Sep 2001, 23:05 (Ref:142760)

Quote:

Originally posted by GanjaGrizz
The scoring system for CART is fine in my book. The NASCAR point system is the one that is really screwed up, that could be a reason why I cant watch it. The winner at the end of the season usually has something like 4000 points(something like that)... now thats funny.
A drivers can finish 35 and still score many points.

hmmmmmmmmmmm someone actually agrees with me lol

SevenGrain · 7 Sep 2001, 05:04 (Ref:142907)

I recall dong an experiment of my own using F-1 points to figure NASCAR results in 1990 or 1991 (It was the year Earnhart won and Rudd was second) and the F1 points made Davey Allison the Champion with Earnhart second and Rudd wasn't even in the top five.

It just goes to show how very different the scoring systems can be in major racing series. Earnhart knew how to win championships in NASCAR, and deFerran has a pretty good handle on how to maximize the CART points system.

Liz · 7 Sep 2001, 11:04 (Ref:143012)

And don't discount the experience of Rick Mears and Roger Penske in maximizing the changes of their drivers.

snakepit27 · 7 Sep 2001, 15:40 (Ref:143148)

Quote:

Originally posted by Liz
And don't discount the experience of Rick Mears and Roger Penske in maximizing the changes of their drivers.

what do u mean?

Liz · 7 Sep 2001, 16:30 (Ref:143186)

These two men have a lot of experience with open wheel racing between them and if there is a way to get the car to the end of the race and win a championship, one of them will know what it is.

snakepit27 · 7 Sep 2001, 18:44 (Ref:143262)

Quote:

Originally posted by Liz
These two men have a lot of experience with open wheel racing between them and if there is a way to get the car to the end of the race and win a championship, one of them will know what it is.

oh ok, yea yea deffaintly

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