New Licence and Towing Regs for 2013

[Tim Falce]

I don't fully understand this from the DVLA or DfT or whatever it is as in one line it says if you hold a current B or BE licence your entitlement stays the same, the next line says if you want to tow heavy trailers with a car from 19th January you'll have to take a test. It doesn't seem all that clear to me as they quote trailers weighing 3500kg but don't say whether that's the unladen or gross mass.
Can anyone decipher it?

[touringlegend]

Nope. I'm just as confused.

[MGDavid]

....they must use the same regulation writer as the MSA

[graham bahr]

[QUOTE]
New driving licence rules will come into force on 19 January 2013, for drivers of cars and small vehicles (category B and BE) to tow trailers. The new rules will apply if you pass your test after that date. Find out how these changes could affect you.

so in other words it wont effect us that already have licences

[Paul D]

As Graham says - this only applies to anyone passing their test after the 19/1/13.

So it doesn't apply to anyone who has a full licence before that date, i.e. all of us on here!

[Tim Falce]

Graham.

Originally Posted by DfT website

Existing car or small vehicle drivers

If you already have a licence to drive cars or small vehicles (category B and BE), you'll keep your entitlement to tow trailers. Your entitlement to tow trailers will stay as it was when you passed your driving test.

To tow heavier trailers after 19 January 2013, you'll need to follow the rules for new drivers, below.

which implies that no matter when you passed your test you you need to take another test if the gross weight is more than 3500kg

Originally Posted by same site

New drivers from 19 January 2013

Category B

There is no change to category B entitlement to tow trailers.

Category BE

If your trailer weighs over 750 kg and the combined trailer and towing vehicle weight is more than 3,500 kg, you’ll need to pass a further test. The trailer you tow must not be heavier than 3,500 kg. This test will be shown on your driving licence as category BE.

Category C1E

To tow a trailer weighing more than 3,500 kg with a car or small vehicle (category B), you’ll need to pass a test for category C1E.

[m1fcf]

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

Graham.
which implies that no matter when you passed your test you you need to take another test if the gross weight is more than 3500kg

That's how I read the regs. For those with B, then no change. Those with BE/C1E will need to take the test

[graham bahr]

Category C1E

To tow a trailer weighing more than 3,500 kg with a car or small vehicle (category B), you’ll need to pass a test for category C1E.

but if like a lot of us you already have C1E on your license surely your not going to have to take a test for something you already have?????

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by graham bahr

but if like a lot of us you already have C1E on your license surely your not going to have to take a test for something you already have?????

Sort of, I have C1E with code 107 which means I can't tow a trailer of more than 750kg behind a 7.5 tonner. I also have CE (HGV1) so how stupid is that.

I think the main reasoning behind the new regs is to simplify the trailer can't weigh more than the car and the whole lot cant be more than 3500kg GTW rule which is quite complicated, It's just that back dating it makes things as clear as mud.

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

Sort of, I have C1E with code 107 which means I can't tow a trailer of more than 750kg behind a 7.5 tonner. I also have CE (HGV1) so how stupid is that.

I think the main reasoning behind the new regs is to simplify the trailer can't weigh more than the car and the whole lot cant be more than 3500kg GTW rule which is quite complicated, It's just that back dating it makes things as clear as mud.

is that right Tim? I only ask 'cos a pal was looking for a towcar a while back and found that Ford rate the Mondeo as max towing weight 1800kg which is way more than the car...
What on earth is a 'heavier trailer' anyway - once over 750kg there doesn't appear to be any further division or definition.
I've heard of the caravanners' 85% rule but don't think that is law either.
In passing, I still use a non-card licence, it has B, C1, D1, B+E, C1E, D1E and F K L N P on it - will need to make sure they all get carried across if I renew it!

[Tim Falce]

David, the 3500kg max train weight and trailer weighing more than the car is if you only have a B licence so if you have BE it doesn't make any difference.

[MGDavid]

Ah right, thanks for that; so more-or-less only applies to people passing their test since 1997...

[GORDON STREETER]

My pink paper A D E "grandad" licence from 1964 covers most things up to 7.5 tons but it runs out in 2017
Some of my mates applied for a photo licence and although they passed a motor bike test years ago they weren't issued with the bike entitlement on the new licence and had to take the test again, so look out.

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

My pink paper A D E "grandad" licence from 1964 covers most things up to 7.5 tons but it runs out in 2017
Some of my mates applied for a photo licence and although they passed a motor bike test years ago they weren't issued with the bike entitlement on the new licence and had to take the test again, so look out.

Apparently if you apply for a photocard licence via one of the DVLA local offices (quick before they all close) they will give you a certified copy of your old licence before sending it all off to Swansea. Then if any group is missing on the new licence you can use the cert copy to claim it and have it reinstated.

[Lancsbreaker]

Milady was most incensed when renewing her licence at 70 that they omitted her bike licence category - she passed her bike test in the early 50s and had a 350cc BSA - but she's kept a copy of her paper licence and argued with DVLA who did re-instate it......similarly she went for a medical (akin to an HGV medical) to get her licence to drive over 3.5 tonne retained.

Isn't it fascinating that despite DVLA's huge computer database, they somehow haven't been able to retain the information on what categories you are licenced to drive......? More to the point, if they haven't got this information, how can they prove who does have the appropriate licences?

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

Isn't it fascinating that despite DVLA's huge computer database, they somehow haven't been able to retain the information on what categories you are licenced to drive......? More to the point, if they haven't got this information, how can they prove who does have the appropriate licences?

The database that the ANPR police cameras use soon know if our MOT or insurance/tax is out of date though
I was talking to someone else today who said that his father had been sent a licence with certain categories missing, the DVLA asked him to produce his original pass slip from 1959, and blow me he did ! but was then told that "they couldn't authenticate it" as it didn't show up on the system. Wa****rs !!!!

[Ex User]

Now I am totally confused lol. I didn't think I could tow anything and that's what most people have told me. I'm 23 and passed my test in 2007 I have B,B1,f,k,p on my licence. Would i be allowed to tow on my licence?

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by H Dolphin

Now I am totally confused lol. I didn't think I could tow anything and that's what most people have told me. I'm 23 and passed my test in 2007 I have B,B1,f,k,p on my licence. Would i be allowed to tow on my licence?

You can tow a trailer that is no more than 750kg. You can also tow a trailer that has a gross weight of not more than the towing vehicle and providing the total gross train weight doesn't exceed 3500kg, this is plated weights not what you are actually driving/carrying. I think

[Ex User]

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

You can tow a trailer that is no more than 750kg. You can also tow a trailer that has a gross weight of not more than the towing vehicle and providing the total gross train weight doesn't exceed 3500kg, this is plated weights not what you are actually driving/carrying. I think

Thank you.

What do you mean by plated weights?

[Tim Falce]

On the car and trailer there are (should be) VIN plates which give axle weights and gross and train weights, these are the plates you have to take notice of for the licence laws as opposed to what you actually carry. So for instance if you car can only tow a maximum of 1500kg your trailer can only be plated to that. In the same scenario you couldn't tow a trailer that is plated at 2000kg but only load it to 1500kg max. That's how I understand it anyway.

[Ex User]

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

On the car and trailer there are (should be) VIN plates which give axle weights and gross and train weights, these are the plates you have to take notice of for the licence laws as opposed to what you actually carry. So for instance if you car can only tow a maximum of 1500kg your trailer can only be plated to that. In the same scenario you couldn't tow a trailer that is plated at 2000kg but only load it to 1500kg max. That's how I understand it anyway.

Thank you for your help, towing laws have been confusing me for ages

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

On the car and trailer there are (should be) VIN plates which give axle weights and gross and train weights, these are the plates you have to take notice of for the licence laws as opposed to what you actually carry. So for instance if you car can only tow a maximum of 1500kg your trailer can only be plated to that. In the same scenario you couldn't tow a trailer that is plated at 2000kg but only load it to 1500kg max. That's how I understand it anyway.

so how does that cater for a home-built trailer? (which it is still just about legal to do). IMO going by plates is just a lazy tax-gathering exercise which doesn't require a weighbridge. If Ford say your Mondeo estate can tow 1800 kg and all you can hire is a big trailer, and you put an Elan on it (total about 1400) then Bob's yer uncle, or should be.

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

On the car and trailer there are (should be) VIN plates which give axle weights and gross and train weights, these are the plates you have to take notice of for the licence laws as opposed to what you actually carry. So for instance if you car can only tow a maximum of 1500kg your trailer can only be plated to that. In the same scenario you couldn't tow a trailer that is plated at 2000kg but only load it to 1500kg max. That's how I understand it anyway.

You are correct Tim, a bloke next to me at work had a "smallish" box trailer that he towed with a Saab 9.5, as his business was expanding he sold it and brought a bigger one and started to use it only to be told by the law that although he wasn't overweight the trailer was capable of taking more, so in fact it is illegal to tow it even if it is empty !
I would have thought that there are loads of builders/horse box people out there that are now deemed illegal and don't know about it !
Having been pulled for being "overweight" by the law in the past i am aware believe me !

[GORDON STREETER]

I don't think that tha Pug 205 diesel that I use with a tow bar for "shunting" trailers/race boxes around the yard/workshop would be legal on the road !

[Moosehead]

Just going through a trailer downsizing process because of this. TBH its a total farce - somewhat akin to be pulled for speeding at 50mph because your car can do 100mph!!!