2008 rules: Starter

[Adam43]

I was having a look through the proposed rules and came across this:

Originally Posted by FIA proposed 2008 tech regs

5.16 Starting the engine :
All cars must be fitted with a starter which is capable of starting the engine at any time during the Event
when operated by the driver whilst in his normal seating position.

I remember reading this was likely to be in it, but what is the reasoning behind it?

From what I see it will be a little better on the grid as it won't need a mechanic behind the car in those last few seconds before they have to clear off.

In addition it will allow a car that stalled in the pits to be restarted by the driver. This will remove the need (in most cases?) for an extra man to mess around behind the car with a piece of equipment.

The most potentially interesting aspect could come with another change in the rules, this time with the sporting regs. Can a driver spin out and stall, but now rejoin the race without a push from the marshal. Will the "if in a dangerous position" rule be changed slightly to accommodate this?

[Sodemo]

Yeah, I think it is a good change, if only to keep more cars in a race, though again its another form of letting the drivers off the hook if they make a mistake.
If they do spin out amd lose the engine, then they are out of the race, I think there point where we should stop babying drivers, by giving them 20 acres of tarmac run off areas, and removing barriers (Monaco) etc.

[Marbot]

No doubt BAR will find a cunning way of using the battery as ballast.

[StickShift]

The starter motor is probably being introduced because the standard ECU's and gearboxes in 2008 will not have the anti-stall failsafes that the cars have under today's regulations.

[Adam43]

The standard ECU's may well have anti-stall programmed into them, but I see what you are saying.

[Snrub]

If StickShift's thought is correct, starters are a terrific idea. Open wheel cars look pathetic when they stall out and can't start up again. They're state of the art technology, but they can't start themselves?

Also picture one of those situations where a car stalls on the grid due to clutch difficulties (not driver error). Instead of pulling the car away to the pits to start it, the driver could start their own car.

[StickShift]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

The standard ECU's may well have anti-stall programmed into them, but I see what you are saying.

I'm sure that the standard ECU's are capable of having a standard anti-stall failsafe, but I doubt that the FIA would use it. The entire point of going "back to the future" with the 2008 car is to reduce the dependancy on computers and aerodynamics, and increase the focus on mechanical efficency.

The FIA ECU will likely be as bare bones as possible.

[Dutton]

I found this proposal interesting too. I can only see that it would be introduced as a result of standardised ECU, combined with just making things more straightforward in the case of a stall. Like has been mentioned before.

It is one of these things that is a pity, in much the same way the anti-stall mechanisms the teams have are a pity. I personally like the idea of stalling really screwing people over, plus just seeing the process of them being restarted and so on I find very cool.

Brings to mind now, however, does this require a particularly fundamental redesign of the engines? I remember reading somewhere, at some point, something about the reasons for/results of engines not being self-starters. I just cannot remember what it was for the life of me, so hopefully some techno-buff can help out on this account.

[Kicking-back]

The engines are not self starters purely for weight reasons.

[Dutton]

Ah, okay, I thought there was more to it than that. Presumably there must be knock on effects to the design though, with F1 being as it is. Not necessarily directly related, but nonetheless of significant impact.

[Snrub]

The other issue is, have you ever seen a F1 flywheel? It's freakishly small, I'm shocked that it even works. There's the issue of how does one get a starter in there.

Some lesser types of racing use flywheels that look sort of like an old wagon wheel with the clutch surface in the middle and spokes going out to a ring gear....

[Dutton]

That would be a knock-on effect of the sort I was meaning.

[BootsOntheSide]

I suspect the weight issues and the resultant impact on flywheel designs are the reasons why teams don't have starter motors in teh cars conventionally, and why this rule is needed to ensure that they do. It strikes me as a good change, which should ensure less time lost from starting/pitstop problems, and mroe cars remaining in the race after problems, similarly to ChampCars.

[Adam43]

Interestingly the new engine rules give a minimum weight for the engine and this doesn't include the flywheel.

[Glen]

Isn't it a strange world, the world of F1? A rigid plastic box is a blanket, and the flywheel isn't part of the engine! Plus many other examples I'm sure.

[Marbot]

And a device that presses the car onto the ground is called a "wing"....Go figure.

[Robert Duncan]

Originally Posted by StickShift

... starter motor is probably being introduced ...

That should be re-introduced, years ago the rules stated an F1 car had to be capable of starting itself some number of times (like 3?). I remember the starter changing from electric drive to a compressed air motor, to reduce weight.

Here is an area that F1 technology could lead road car introduction. It is possible to sense crank position then with direct injection and ignition control start the motor without a "starter motor". Just inject fuel and spark the proper cylinders in the proper order.

A zero weight starting system.

[Nicholosophy]

Originally Posted by Robert Duncan

Here is an area that F1 technology could lead road car introduction. It is possible to sense crank position then with direct injection and ignition control start the motor without a "starter motor". Just inject fuel and spark the proper cylinders in the proper order.

A zero weight starting system.

Sounds good in theory, but if the FIA are talking about a standard ECU, then the FIA would have to develop the system to work on each of the engines.

The teams couldn't develop such a system as it would go into the ECU - and the ECU will be standard.

[Stargazer7]

I really like the whole concept of the new proposed-regs but I really don't know whether the mechanics would have the opportunity to introduce new revolutionary features as they did before. The rules are too specific, if you know what I mean. Not much space for experimentation.

[Xpunk75]

The Malakas Killed all the creative freedom that the engineers have. Although I think the teams will still find ways to inovate the cars in diffrent ways. Other aspects of the cars will become more important when the engine parts and the brakes become generic parts used by all the teams. Maybe they will add wings do the drivers helmet! lol jk I think that be pretty painful maybe deadly but you get the picture. The teams will find other ways to make the cars lighter and faster.

I like the Starter rule I think it will make F1 safer for road course marshals and drivers who stall on the grid. It might even eliminate having to do another warm up lap because of a stalled car on the grid. I think its an all around good idea. The rules they have stated on the list and The only reason I know them some what is because I read them the whole way down to Indianopolis for the Grand PRix here this summer. Is that they basicly want to put more empahsis on the Driver and less on the Car. Which I think will make the sport more entertaining to watch, but it will also cause the sport to lose intrest to the fans who care about titanium gearboxes that make the car go faster by 1 tenth of a second. To me, I would like to see a perfect balance but that may never ever happen. So I think in a sport where as fans where we put so much emphases on who will be the Drivers Champion that the sport be more driver then the car.

[Snrub]

Originally Posted by Xpunk75

Maybe they will add wings do the drivers helmet!

Actually if you take a look at driver's helmets, they already have little wings , although they're more like spoilers. The helmets get sucked up when the car is moving at speed, so the little wing helps to keep the helmet from pulling up on the driver.

[Dutton]

Originally Posted by Snrub

Actually if you take a look at driver's helmets, they already have little wings , although they're more like spoilers. The helmets get sucked up when the car is moving at speed, so the little wing helps to keep the helmet from pulling up on the driver.

I would imagine it is more to do with airflow to the airbox.

[Logrence]

I'll be glad to see starters on F1 cars, it'll put my mind at ease.

I've always thought it a little strange that these automobiles are the pinnacle of modern technology, yet you can't do your seatbelt up and start the engine without the help of 8 mechanics and a laptop computer.

[Snrub]

Originally Posted by Dutton

I would imagine it is more to do with airflow to the airbox.

That's not what they said on that Inside Grand Prix TV show. (not the greatest show, but it does have direct access to Williams)

[Dutton]

Well, fair enough I guess. It surprises me if that is the case; well, not that the teams would do it, but that a perceptible improvement in that regard with such means is attainable.