And Frentzen goes to........

Newey · 13 Dec 2001, 17:42 (Ref:185502)

What's your opinion about what and where Frentzen does drive next year is it Arrows, or Prost maybe Minardi?
Arrows does not have confirming Verstappen or Bernoldi yet, does Tom Walkinsaw play dirty games again? Signing Heinz and sack one of the former Arrows drivers?

Your opinion please.

Greetzz,

Newey

steve nielsen · 13 Dec 2001, 17:50 (Ref:185503)

Bernoldi does'nt have to be sacked, he does'nt have a contract, Jos has a contract and although he is'nt on the PROVISIONAL FIA list he was confirmed by the team twice already.

when you take into account that Red Bull have resigned with Arrows 2 months ago and Bernoldi still does'nt have a contract and is'nt confirmed it looks to me like TW wants Jos and HHF , and Bernoldi is just a "spare" just in case HHF does'nt sign for Arrows.

av8rirl · 13 Dec 2001, 17:52 (Ref:185504)

HHF should go home to Germany.

Newey · 13 Dec 2001, 18:02 (Ref:185513)

Remember the Story of Mika Salo? TW sacked him just before begin the Formula 97 season.... I think and a lot off Dutch fans to that Jos is gona sack.. Which I do not wanted to happen (Jos fan

)

Nicholas · 13 Dec 2001, 18:25 (Ref:185537)

Oh I thought you were going to tell us the answer!

Newey · 13 Dec 2001, 18:36 (Ref:185552)

nicholaswhite> If I now

steve nielsen · 13 Dec 2001, 19:44 (Ref:185597)

Newey: Salo had a contract(99 season BTW) wich said that he had to bring sponsorship to the team in his 2nd year, but he could'nt find any. since Arrows would have been broke if they did'nt have enough sponsorship TW did'nt have a choice but to replace Salo with Takagi who did have sponsorship.

Jos already brought sponsorship to the team(it is'nt in his contract, so that's a bonus): Lost Boys,TCC and Trust.

f1manoz · 13 Dec 2001, 23:05 (Ref:185669)

Latest news from a couple of sources are predicting HHF will be signing for Arrows before Christmas, most likely alongside Bernoldi, and leaving Verstappen without a full-time ride.

It will be a travesty if Bernoldi is kept on and Jos left out.

And this goes against all of what HHF has been saying about how he will stay loyal to Prost. But perhaps he knows something we don't.

BootsOntheSide · 13 Dec 2001, 23:58 (Ref:185682)

"It will be a travesty if Bernoldi is kept on and Jos left out. "

Why? Bernoldi outqualified Jos 10-7, not bad for a rookie who's allegedly Jos' worst ever team-mate. Jos ahs done well against the likes of Rosset adn Schiatarella, but up against quality drivers like Schuey and Rubens he's really fell short, even agaisnt Salo and De La Rosa. Compare Bernoldi's committed stylish defensive driving at Monaco with Verstappen's loss of intellegence at Interlagos. Jos had a few good drives including Malaysia, but overall is an over-rated driver.

Schumacher · 14 Dec 2001, 01:58 (Ref:185710)

I dont see why Frentzen is getting another decent drive at the expense of either Bernoldi or Verstappen for that matter. Bernoldi had a decent first season and he certainly deserves to drive the Arrows next season. Same goes for Jos. He's a far better driver than a lot of people give him credit for. The Arrows looks set to be a decent enough car next season and it would be a travesty if Jos was thrown out after a spirited effort for 2 seasons in a lousy Arrows. Walkinshaw should be ashamed of himself if he signs Frentzen

steve nielsen · 14 Dec 2001, 03:59 (Ref:185751)

Quote:

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide
"It will be a travesty if Bernoldi is kept on and Jos left out. "

Why? Bernoldi outqualified Jos 10-7, not bad for a rookie who's allegedly Jos' worst ever team-mate. Jos ahs done well against the likes of Rosset adn Schiatarella, but up against quality drivers like Schuey and Rubens he's really fell short, even agaisnt Salo and De La Rosa. Compare Bernoldi's committed stylish defensive driving at Monaco with Verstappen's loss of intellegence at Interlagos. Jos had a few good drives including Malaysia, but overall is an over-rated driver.

But remember how far behind Bernoldi usualy was in the races??

Jos scored the only point for Arrows in Austria, almost scoring in Canada(if only the brakes had'nt failed).Jos was in 7th place in Malasia having been in 2nd there(also 2nd for a while in Austria)Enrique was nowhere near a points scoring position.
Jos Overtook 5 cars at Monaco(!!) and more than 90 in total(Enrique 50).

And the stories that Bernoldi can stay instead of Jos are all based on the assumption that Enrique is still backed by Red Bull, But Red Bull have signed a contract with Arrows more than 2 months ago an he still does'nt have a contract.

Rha · 14 Dec 2001, 08:59 (Ref:185792)

Tom has said a few months a go that he need a top class driver, like HHF and some others, that means current drivers Jos end EB aren't top class drivers, and i can see why, Frentzen is a 3 time GP winner he gave to Jordan 3rd place in '99
when Hill was almost at back of the grid.... finish 2nd in '97 with 6 fastest laps.....
Jos or Enrique are far behind him..... And we will
see what happaned to Jordan now, I don't think taht Fisico will do a better job than HHF at Jordan, HHF is a top class driver and I want to see him in a MacDenis....
Best Regards

downforce · 14 Dec 2001, 09:48 (Ref:185798)

Frenzy.....................sleep my man!

steve nielsen · 14 Dec 2001, 12:27 (Ref:185822)

Quote:

Originally posted by Rha
Tom has said a few months a go that he need a top class driver, like HHF and some others, that means current drivers Jos end EB aren't top class drivers, and i can see why, Frentzen is a 3 time GP winner he gave to Jordan 3rd place in '99
when Hill was almost at back of the grid.... finish 2nd in '97 with 6 fastest laps.....
Jos or Enrique are far behind him..... And we will
see what happaned to Jordan now, I don't think taht Fisico will do a better job than HHF at Jordan, HHF is a top class driver and I want to see him in a MacDenis....
Best Regards

Tom also said he wanted the best possible teammate for Jos that he could get..........

**Bononi** · 14 Dec 2001, 13:06 (Ref:185826)

I like those rumours, and how does this affect some people...

At least it keeps us talking about something in F1.

Sadly, we all know how it will end...

Super Tourer · 14 Dec 2001, 14:35 (Ref:185842)

If Arrows were to sign HHF, it wouldn't be much of an inspired choice and shows a bit of staid team management. Peter Sauber shook of his staid management style when he signed Kimi and re-confirmed it by signing Massa for 2002, and look what the team has achieved as a result.

HHF is nowhere near the hot property he was and the comparions once drawn between him and MS are a very distant memory. We have to remember that this is a driver that Williams got rid of and Jordan sacked mid-season for poor results.

If Arrows want to muscle their way up the grid, signing a quick & cheap F3000 star (Webber, Wilson, Sperafico, etc) would accelerate the team's progress more than signing a tired old has been, that none of the other teams really want. IMHO.

**Stephen Green** · 14 Dec 2001, 16:26 (Ref:185866)

Well the rumours on the newswires suggest he has signed HHF and EB and that Jos will be left on the sidelines.

steve nielsen · 14 Dec 2001, 16:54 (Ref:185879)

Quote:

Originally posted by Stephen Green
Well the rumours on the newswires suggest he has signed HHF and EB and that Jos will be left on the sidelines.

But what they keep forgetting is that Trust,TCC and Lost Boys are Dutch companies who sponsor Arrows because Jos drives there.

Trust and Lost Boys have their logo's on both cars and Jos's helmet, TCC was on the mirrors this year and also will be on Jos's helemt next year:

New Official Supplier for OrangeArrows
2001-07-26 15:33:00

TCC joins the Official Supplier programme

OrangeArrows announced today (26th July 2001) that The Communication Company (TCC) has joined the team's official supplier programme.

TCC will assist the team with its marketing and brand development activities in the Netherlands and will also support OrangeArrows sponsor, Lost Boys.

The Communication Company was established in 1990 in Breda, the Netherlands, and believes in building international brands by totally integrated creative communication. With offices in the Netherlands (Breda and Amsterdam) and Belgium (Antwerp), TCC is one of the fastest growing agencies in Benelux. TCC Group employs 60 people and is divided into TCC Advertising, TCC Design (corporate design and packaging), TCC Reputations (PR), X-Plosive (2-D and 3-D animations for TV, cinema and games), TCC IdeaLab (product and brand development) and TCC Interactive (new media concepts). These cells work closely together to offer totally integrated communication solutions internationally.

The TCC logo will appear on the wing mirrors of the OrangeArrows cars for the remainder of the 2001 season and on Jos Verstappen's helmet from 2002.

www.TCC.com

www.orangearrows.com

Super Tourer · 14 Dec 2001, 17:04 (Ref:185885)

Stephen

I guess this just goes to show why Arrows have never got anywhere - no imagination!!!!

BTW - Did you see the article in Bernies F1 mag re: Frenzen & Jordan.
The engineer's just about tore their hair out with HHF's constant complaining about the car. He wanted some aero changes to the car that the team knew wouldn't work, so they allegedly came into the workshop to find HHF sawing some bits off the car with a hacksaw!!!

The article portrayed him as being slightly odd and difficult!

Also HHF couldn't get on with the harsh management style of Patrick Head at Williams - wait til he's got the wrong side of TW - Prepare yourselves for another mid-season sacking.........

Number Juan · 14 Dec 2001, 18:30 (Ref:185902)

who knows where he is going? with all the musical chairs of last year it goes to show who you start off with at the start of the year isnt necessarily where you will end up at the end of the year!

BootsOntheSide · 14 Dec 2001, 19:11 (Ref:185926)

Sorry Steve, can you change the record now? Every post of yours I've seen has been about Jos. Stop letting nationality (a perhaps a certain widely-illegal-except-in-Holland substance) cloud your judgment- he only makes so many overtaking moves in races because

a) He qualifies so pathetically and needs to make places
b) He starts on light fuel loads and loses many of these places again in pitstops.

Also, Tom Walkinshaw has to be one of F1's dimmest managers- he falls out with Damon,struggles to attract majotr sponsors, and makes stupid tactical decisions in races, even after they fail time and again. Plus they seem to be falling into a cycle- give up on one car mid-season and thus slip to joining Minardi at the back, then launch a much-hyped new car which ends up average paced but unreliable, fall into cash trouble, abandon the next season to work on anotehr 'magical spectacular' new car. It's almost as comical as DC saying how he'll win the title next year.

steve nielsen · 14 Dec 2001, 20:25 (Ref:185948)

The Arrows team does start on light fuel loads with both cars, but I have'nt seen Bernoldi driving 2nd or for that matter anywhere near a point scoring position, and the Asiatech also has 50-70 BHP less than all others(exept Minardi and Renault in the first races), so the fuel only makes thing even.

and Jos finished ahead of Irvine and Villeneuve in Austria who had a much beter engine.When you look at the Monza GP Jos was ahead of Kimi and Jean, but all 3 cars where on a 2 stop strategy, Jos was'nt lighter there, and several other GP's, but he still manages to find a gap to pass, even with an Asiatech engine.
In Hockenheim Enrique started on a 3 stop strategy, Jos on 2 stops, but who was ahead of who after a lap??, Jos was ahead of Enrique(2 or 3 places) and if it had'nt been for Zonta he would have finished ahead of him too.

Jos does'nt qualify so bad: when he's behind Bernoldi the gap is usualy only 1 tenht of a second(that means that that's as fast as the car goes, Jos is 7 KG heavier than Enrique), but when Jos qualified in front the gap was bigger, I'm sure that if you add all times together Jos's time will be faster.

I Ate Yoko Ono · 15 Dec 2001, 03:58 (Ref:186089)

Who gives a ssshhhIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTTTTTT!

HHF is the most overrated, most underachieving piece of well past his sell by date ssshhhiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitttttt to have insulted the F1 grid since Damon Hill.

**** him. **** his supporters. **** the past. Live in the now. HHF he ****ty boy, he bad boy, he bady boy, he batty boy, he batty boy, he gonna jump up, jump up.

****.

Nicholas · 15 Dec 2001, 08:03 (Ref:186103)

Quote:

Originally posted by Super Tourer
HHF sawing some bits off the car with a hacksaw!!!

Crazy!

Raoul Duke · 15 Dec 2001, 08:19 (Ref:186109)

Quote:

Originally posted by I Ate Yoko Ono
Who gives a ssshhhIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTTTTTT!

HHF is the most overrated, most underachieving piece of well past his sell by date ssshhhiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitttttt to have insulted the F1 grid since Damon Hill.

**** him. **** his supporters. **** the past. Live in the now. HHF he ****ty boy, he bad boy, he bady boy, he batty boy, he batty boy, he gonna jump up, jump up.

****.

Wow, I'm sure glad I don't post here when I'm drunk

.

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