What difference will no T/C make to the racing?

[Patrick Fletche]

I don't see the cars being immensely slower, they still have the same power and grip and the drivers are rather good.
But IMHO mistakes will be punished a lot harder. The electronics won't be there as a safety net. All the new tarmac runoffs will get more use. So maybe we will get less overtaking as drivers become more cautious.
Also the tyres won't be as protected. We will see more drivers getting through to the canvas towards the end of each stint. And we know what that does. So drivers who are easy on their rubber, like Kimi, may well have an advantage here.
We could also see some changes in driving style to get round the above. Maybe Hamilton will be less loose and oversteery for instance.

What do you think?

[crmalcolm]

Having queried it in another thread, It appears that nearly all the drivers on the grid have proved more than proficient in driving without TC.

[FPV GTHO]

Hungary and Monaco should be a bit more interesting, as its the slow speed stuff where the wheels will actuall be spinning as opposed to the fast stuff. I'd imagine more drop off in performance at the end of a stint as well, as well as the obvious being wet races becoming alot more interesting. By all means it should help overtaking, by giving a situation where drivers who cant get the power down will be down a few km/h down the straights and under more risk of being overtaken.

[Knowlesy]

It won't make a massive difference really. A few more mistakes here and there and slightly more overtaking opportunities as a result.

But, really, it will be status quo all round.

[crmalcolm]

Does anyone have any reliable information from a team that would show how often the car applied TC during a lap/stint. This information would show how much it affected a driver's performance.

[crmalcolm]

http://download.microsoft.com/downlo...Case_Study.doc
Just found the above, does this mean that all F1 cars will have a bit of McLaren technology in them from next year?

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

But, really, it will be status quo all round.

They'll have to listen to status quo as well as having no traction control! Blimey!

[Knowlesy]

That'll force a few into early retirement.

[Kebab]

I have a feeling that someone along the pit lane will have some super-clever diff that gives them a big advantage off the line and out of low-speed corners.

Assuming diffs are allowed of course!

I suspect it might be Renault.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Kebab

I have a feeling that someone along the pit lane will have some super-clever diff that gives them a big advantage off the line and out of low-speed corners.

Well,you can only do what the ECU allows you to do i.e. very little.

[Adam43]

Other TC threads:
No TC next year. Winners and losers. by Patrick Fletche
TC in 2008? by mrsweety
Is TC really worth 3 seconds a lap? by schead
Launch Control / Traction Control in 2008 by Sodemo

...

[jab]

IMHO you just have to look at the best drivers in the wet to see the guys that will benefit and lose out

Winners
Alonso
Raikkonen
Hamilton
Button
Vettel
Webber

Losers
Massa
Kubica maybe (one name that keeps cropping)

[Sodemo]

Launch control is the one I want to see removed.

I loved seeing the cars lined up, then smoking their rears under acceleration down to turn 1.

[ralf fan]

IRIC hasn't launch control been banned for a couple of years now. The teams have come up with an alternate starting system though which isn't launch control.

[Sodemo]

I dont think Hamilton will really be a "winner" at all, in fact if I had to put him any where I would say he would be in the "loser" camp as far as any gains from the removal of traction control.
Throughout the season we saw him throwing the car around, having the back end sliding around, something which he won't be able to do as much with no TC.

Don't forget that Lewis has rear tyre problems at Silverstone and also had a rear tyre go at China, both of which were through excessive wear, I would put Lewis in the "rear tyre eater" category, just like Montoya was, so perhaps he won't be a winner at all.

[HCForums]

I don't think it will make a big difference. If you slow the cars down in F1 the next year they will go faster, same with this new rule. The smart people back in the shops will find something for it, sure we'll see some more sliding but not as much as most of us expect to see.

[MacMan]

and we all know that Ferrari and Benetton/Renault with find some way of hiding TCin their system and Ron will get all worked up over it.

[Knowlesy]

There can only be losers with this rule.

The poor drivers will find themselves a bit further adrift. That is all.

All the talented guys will not suffer in any way, shape or form.

[MacMan]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

There can only be losers with this rule.

The poor drivers will find themselves a bit further adrift. That is all.

All the talented guys will not suffer in any way, shape or form.

I agree with that 100% the cream will always rise to the top.

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I dont think Hamilton will really be a "winner" at all, in fact if I had to put him any where I would say he would be in the "loser" camp as far as any gains from the removal of traction control.
Throughout the season we saw him throwing the car around, having the back end sliding around, something which he won't be able to do as much with no TC.

Don't forget that Lewis has rear tyre problems at Silverstone and also had a rear tyre go at China, both of which were through excessive wear, I would put Lewis in the "rear tyre eater" category, just like Montoya was, so perhaps he won't be a winner at all.

How do we know though that Hamilton doesnt steer with the rear end BECAUSE of the traction control? We saw with Alonso at McLaren that his understeering style was because of the heavily rear weight biased Renaults and super turn-in Michelin's, not necessarily because thats what he thought was the fastest way around the track. It simply was at the time.

[Kebab]

These guys have been driving different kinds of cars most of their lives, am sure they'll adapt quickly. I still think the main difference will be any mechanical advantage one team gets over another.

[Kieran20]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Launch control is the one I want to see removed.

I loved seeing the cars lined up, then smoking their rears under acceleration down to turn 1.

im pretty sure launch control has been gone a few years. the reason the tyres werent spinning is because they all had traction control off the line

may make the starts interesting this coming year.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Kebab

I still think the main difference will be any mechanical advantage one team gets over another.

Indeed.However,it's going to be difficult to find any sort of mechanical device that will do anything near what electronic TC was doing.

Getting the car set up correctly will be much more important next season.This is why the ones who didn't use (much) TC this season will have a slight advantage going into winter testing.But I expect everyone to be more or less equal by the time the first race comes around.

[Patrick Fletche]

Originally Posted by martyn bott

Indeed.However,it's going to be difficult to find any sort of mechanical device that will do anything near what electronic TC was doing.

Getting the car set up correctly will be much more important next season.This is why the ones who didn't use (much) TC this season will have a slight advantage going into winter testing.But I expect everyone to be more or less equal by the time the first race comes around.

Before electronics they used worm gear torque sensing diffs.
These constantly apportion torque to the tyre with the most grip.
Presumably they will go back to something similar but more sophisticated.

[crmalcolm]

Would a form of clutch, that's friction was marginally less than a tyre, provide some form of traction control?
I'm sure that the engineers can develop something mechanically that will offer a form of traction control.