Cost Cutting….. And Factory Support…..

[GTRMagic]

Interesting to read in MN this week, a joint interview with Simon McNamara (Holden) and Ray Price (Ford) on their views of the sustainability of the V8 Supercar category.

To quote Mr Ray Price:

Originally Posted by Ray Price (Ford)

“Yes, the category at the moment is unsustainable. If it continues to go the way it is going, year after year, it will be difficult for manufacturers to stay involved at the current cost levels that were seeing.”

And from the red side….

To quote Mr McNamara:

Originally Posted by Simon McNamara (Holden)

“ My issue is that there are a couple of teams on my side of the fence – and I guess there are a couple of teams on the other side of the fence – where if we withdrew our (Holden factory) support of them, they probably wouldn’t be there. And if your sport is based on that sort of support from a manufacturer, then as Ray said, its not sustainable.

We need to look at ways to make sure these teams can carry on if we decide at some point that we can’t help them out”

What does this mean for the future of the series when the 2 major players are saying some teams are economically unviable without a manufacturer propping them up (as I have been saying for a long time) and that the motorsport marketing budgets are under pressure in both companies.

It seems that the team rationalisations have yet to truly hit their straps…..

[Oaksnaf]

I just think they want a bigger slice of the pie.

[silvervsix]

Have more races, get more TV time, get more people in to the races. would help.

[Oaksnaf]

Originally Posted by silvervsix

Have more races, get more TV time, get more people in to the races. would help.

Im pretty sure the TV audience is worth more than the trackside audience in todays modern world. Channel 7 didn't pay big bucks to see everyone trackside.

[Aquarius]

You could have picked that this was coming.

They need to go back to "production car" racing.

[Silver GT]

Originally Posted by Aquarius

You could have picked that this was coming.

They need to go back to "production car" racing.

Yes I agree totally

I mean what does it cost to build a competitive race car (V8 Supercar) nowadays

Surely the cost of an XR8 or SS with a few mods would be way cheaper for everyone...and with enough advertising and publicity be every bit as popular as the NASCAR wanna be's

[SRabbit]

perhaps, much to Tony's distaste, the amount of money sponsors are injecting into teams is the true indicator of the market value of the series.

Not the gate-takings or tv advertising revenue which we hear about almost daily.
when it gets right down to the nuts and bolts of it - no cars - no series, so no gates or tv either, so the absolutley essential life-line of money is in sponsorship. Why are our teams not getting enough? I'm sure they'd be asking for it - but receiving it is a whole different animal.

For the manufacturers to come out and say they are still propping teams up to the point some wouldn't be there if they didn't get that help, then that says to me that the corporations of Australia don't think it's giving the return in the same proportion that VESA would have us beleive it should be.....

[Forda]

It sounds like the writing is probably on the wall.

The traditional six/eight Aussie sedan market is on the decline, and increasing petrol prices are about to make the whole situation worse.

The series will be limp without the huge financial inputs from Ford & Holden.

[mountainstar]

Increasing fuel prices are not going to stop people from aspiring to own a V8 and that certainly doesn't mean they want to see 4 pots racing just because fuel has gone up. We went down that road in the late 80's/early 90's and the fans didn't like it. Also I think this is more of a Ford/Holden marketing exercise rather than a Falcon/Commodore one, much like Nascar.

In terms of sponsorship, I'm sure many companies would love to be involved, but i can bet not many can toss several million in the ring year after year, in other words the asking price is too high. The solution may be what Tasman is doing, in rotating the primary sponsors around.

I won't be surprised to see TC continue to shop foreign markets like China to broaden opportunities.

[Chucky]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

.....and that certainly doesn't mean they want to see 4 pots racing just because fuel has gone up. We went down that road in the late 80's/early 90's and the fans didn't like it.

That's debatable. Unless you're talking about the Supertouring days,which was the mid/late 90's.

[cavvy]

Originally Posted by Oaksnaf

I just think they want a bigger slice of the pie.

Cobblers, how much of the HRT/HSV budgets are outside the factory? Would not run one car, let alone 2 teams.

What slice of the pie do the manufacturers get now Oaksy ???

[Oaksnaf]

Originally Posted by cavvy

Cobblers, how much of the HRT/HSV budgets are outside the factory? Would not run one car, let alone 2 teams.

What slice of the pie do the manufacturers get now Oaksy ???

Cavvy who are the manufactors speaking for??

[hoffy]

Originally Posted by Chucky

That's debatable. Unless you're talking about the Supertouring days,which was the mid/late 90's.

Apart from a few notable exemptions (namely Bathurst 87 for the WTCC race), the V8's as a whole is much more popular then the GroupA days. I remember the bad old days when you would only get 18 runners at an ATCC round and crowds were sparse to say the least.

Originally Posted by Aquarius

You could have picked that this was coming.

They need to go back to "production car" racing.

I actually disagree. Sure, it would be much easier for privateers to get up and running, but somehow the well funded teams would still manage to spend the money....then you get into the ugly world of homologation specials....who wants to see that again.

Why not go down the NASCAR route? It would cost less money to build a car from scratch & hang the panels on the outside, then it would developing a road car into a race car (i.e.,turning a "Pigs ear into silk purse").

I personally think that they need to stop messing with stupid things like CPS, reverse grids & contrived points systems. How about real races that require real pit stops? I also think that the series may need an overhaul on exposure & promotion. The move to c7 may account for this

[retro]

Originally Posted by hoffy

Apart from a few notable exemptions (namely Bathurst 87 for the WTCC race), the V8's as a whole is much more popular then the GroupA days. I remember the bad old days when you would only get 18 runners at an ATCC round and crowds were sparse to say the least.



I actually disagree. Sure, it would be much easier for privateers to get up and running, but somehow the well funded teams would still manage to spend the money....then you get into the ugly world of homologation specials....who wants to see that again.

Why not go down the NASCAR route? It would cost less money to build a car from scratch & hang the panels on the outside, then it would developing a road car into a race car (i.e.,turning a "Pigs ear into silk purse").

I personally think that they need to stop messing with stupid things like CPS, reverse grids & contrived points systems. How about real races that require real pit stops? I also think that the series may need an overhaul on exposure & promotion. The move to c7 may account for this

How about what Nascar do and change the size of their fuel tanks to force a fuel stop strategy.

[Forda]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Increasing fuel prices are not going to stop people from aspiring to own a V8 and that certainly doesn't mean they want to see 4 pots racing just because fuel has gone up. We went down that road in the late 80's/early 90's and the fans didn't like it. Also I think this is more of a Ford/Holden marketing exercise rather than a Falcon/Commodore one, much like Nascar.

A declining six/eight Aussie sedan market + increasing fuel costs = a further declining six/eight Aussie sedan market = less sales & less market share = less profit = less money for Ford & Holden to justify blowing on V8 Supercars.

Around the time the V8 Supercar series started, the six/eight Aussie sedan market represented one in three vehicles sold in Australia; it now represents less than one in seven.

[manwell]

Originally Posted by retro

How about what Nascar do and change the size of their fuel tanks to force a fuel stop strategy.

Agreed!.
What is it now, a 120 litre tank.
Half it and for the shorter races (still keep the big tank for bathurst,sandown etc) and use a 60 litre tank. The cost of a new tank would be hardly anything and it would stop everyone pulling into the pits on lap 5. They would have to use stratergy when to pit so they could still make the end with fuel remaining.

[cavvy]

Originally Posted by Oaksnaf

Cavvy who are the manufactors speaking for??

Answer a question with a question ... ??

Obviously dear Oaky, the manufacturers are speaking for themselves, BUT....
and it is a big but, if the cash flow is positive you would want more, if it is negative you will be looking to minimise it.

It is undoubtedly a negative cash flow exacerbated by very soft new car sales.

How are the fairies at bottom of the garden today !!

[retro]

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85232

[Silent Number]

Originally Posted by hoffy

Why not go down the NASCAR route? It would cost less money to build a car from scratch & hang the panels on the outside

YUK!!

[Silent Number]

Originally Posted by Silver GT

Yes I agree totally

I mean what does it cost to build a competitive race car (V8 Supercar) nowadays

Surely the cost of an XR8 or SS with a few mods would be way cheaper for everyone...and with enough advertising and publicity be every bit as popular as the NASCAR wanna be's

or GTs and Clubsports, then you could have the support category in Maloos and Pursuits

[Senna05]

let's stop for a second -

We have a category that has XR8's and SS's. We have a Category that has GTS's and GT's. We have a category of utes that have SS's and XR8's.

What is needed is someone to have the balls to 100% get behind these categories, OR we need a production based series that allows some serious mods (ala GP C.)

So, let's look at it. Take an SS/XR8. Dump a hot engine into it, strip all the weight out of it, put a holinger into it an tune it. Slap some big wheels onto it and some other go fast bits. I reckon you would get some fast cars (yes, not as quick as the V8s currently) that would be a little delicate and fun to watch. It also forces the manufacturers to release an "SS Group "X"" or an "XR8 Group "X"" that has the go hard bits but smaller tyres and less mods - but most importantly the fast body kit.

It annoys me that people keep referencing to the fact tat we need production racing - We have it! if you want it, get behind it!

[Raglanparade]

It would be fair to say that the marketing budgets of both Manufacturers have taken a hit as the main marketing focus switches from large cars to small cars.

I honestly don't think there are too many teams out there that would survive without any support from the manufacturer at all.

Which team do you guys on the forum think would attract the most non-manufacturer income ?

[peckstar]

WPS i reckon

[peckstar]

can we get the same safety factor oout of a production car? i just think that nothing will ruin the series quicker than a few fatalities

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by jasonhill9884

Which team do you guys on the forum think would attract the most non-manufacturer income ?

If you exclude self-sufficient teams like PMM, the answer is likely Perkins....