Indy Popularity

[Jonerz]

It's waining.

Listening to my P1 radio station's Saturday morning golf show. They were talking about the terrible FedEx Cup playoff system, the conversation turned to how NASCAR also rewards mediocrity with their points system, and one guy mentioned how he only really cares about four races a year, and who wins them. In Indianapolis' favor he said the 500 was the most important race of the year, but after it ends - in MAY - "Indy, CART, it's a non-event." First of all, he doesn't know who runs the IndyCar Series and he said it best moments later "you can't create, or recreate, the excitement of the big race."

Does Indy have the lustre it once had? No. Is it going down in popularity and relevence every year? Yes. However, the random American on the street still does know about Indy, so there is still some marketability for IndyCars, so long as excitement isn't regulated into the sport - it has to come naturally. A formula to make the 500 exciting again needs to take the place of this spec racing, regardless of how we got to spec racing, and the expences involved. Those new, exciting cars need to be mated to 17-20 exciting EVENTS that generate their own excitement and flair, not just represent or reflect what Indianapolis is. Despite NASCAR, F1, and MotoGP tainting the Speedway's legacy, the 500 mile race is still something powerful but it cannot be recreated at Milwaukee, Long Beach or Chicagoland. America's great racetracks need to feature the teams and cars from the 500 mile race but the event must stand on its own merrit, show of the remarkable nature and potential of high-tech, single seat, open-wheel race cars. [/rant]

Chris

[thebear]

They certainly aren't helping them selves with the TV coverage. Most races are only carried on an obscure `cable only' network whose name escapes me. It is NOT one of the channels available from my cable provider.

[ptclaus98]

I'm really starting to warm to the idea of Indy being the only race on the calendar. No body gives two craps about the IRL at any other venue.

[Jonerz]

Yeah, I think the IRL made a dire mistake in going over to Versus, heck that's not just what I think, it is reality, given ratings and the fact that a member of a motorsports forum can't even name the station! Dire straits indeed. While I don't want Indy to be the only race on the calendar, to the average American, it really is the only race on the calendar already.

The fact that Andretti-Green failed at organizing the Toronto race was pathetic. Where Champ Car cleaned up, and where most successful racing series in North America do well, is in making the weekend an event. During the typical Friday, Saturday, Sunday race weekend ones scences must not stop being activated. The fact that there was one temporary pizza joint outside by the circuit (i.e. there for the weekend, by the organizers), and an uninspired Bud tent and Hooters tent meant that there was few places to take your kids, or if you are an underage teen, or non-drinker, few places to go eat. The Canadian Military and Honda exhibits were the two displays I remember, the IRL had one truck inside the historic racing paddock that was terrible and not advertised anywhere else on the circuit.

If that is any indication of how the rest of the IRL calendar works out in terms of event quality, combine that with uninspiring sounds, sights, and in many cases racing, you might as well give up.

I want to make it known that I am part of the contingent that says the IRL needs to buy time on one of the following CBS, NBC, FOX, or ESPN, have every race of the championship on that station, and as fantastic as twilight racing is, for a season 1pm starts on Sunday, so that the series becomes ingrained in the consciousness of Americans again. Once the Championship is worthy of massive pre- and post race shows, that will naturally occur, CBS or whoever your official station will try to ring out every advertising dollar they earn from the eyeballs watching IndyCar racing. Don't pay head to an unknown specialty channel no matter how they try to win you over with good treatment ("they do proper coverage of In-e-an-apolis Fife Hunnert type razin!"); eyes on screen is what matters.

Chris

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

I want to make it known that I am part of the contingent that says the IRL needs to buy time on one of the following CBS, NBC, FOX, or ESPN,

HA!

I think the problem is they've blown their wad over the past 15 years with hundreds of millions of dollars washed down the drain and they've been left with a decrepit boring product no one is interested in anymore.

They are in that classic downward business spiral. Spending money now buying time I don't see fixing anything when the product is horrid to watch and dull.

[thebear]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

If that is any indication of how the rest of the IRL calendar works out in terms of event quality, combine that with uninspiring sounds, sights, and in many cases racing, you might as well give up.

Chris

Actually, teaming up with ALMS has provided very "full" weekends (FRI-SUN). Just ask any of the SCCA volunteers at St.Petersburg, Long Beach (and other) races where they share a weekend. The IRL is the "Sunday Feature" and there are usually support races as well. The paddock and spectator areas are well attended but a lot of the people are not race fans. They are just out for a weekend's entertainment.

. .

[DanicaFan]

Personally, I wouldnt take too much creedance to it, I mean you were listening to a golf show, what do they know about action and racing.

Golf has to be one of the most boring things in the world to watch. So, they have no room to talk about viewers.

[Dutton]

Out of interest, DanicaFan, do you think there are any imperfections or issues of any kind with the IRL? I realise you don't like the large presence of road courses, but other than that?

[DanicaFan]

Originally Posted by Dutton

Out of interest, DanicaFan, do you think there are any imperfections or issues of any kind with the IRL? I realise you don't like the large presence of road courses, but other than that?

Yes, Im in a rush for time now but I will post some things I would like to see. I appreciate you asking.

[gttouring]

i am a big fan and reader of the old histories of Indycar racing- that is preWW1 where it meant something to race and records were being broken.
now no records only esoteric ones really do anymore.
there was magic on the boards, the old wood tracks, and Indy in its simply huge majesty is holding onto this- but the splintering of open wheel racing has done so much to dilute and make it a weak version of racing these days, there simply isn't the mystery of what a car may be, or whats under the 'hood'
the F1or previous to F1 races all over the world and Indy and dirt tracking shared many of the same rules so the drivers all shared an international spotlight.
now the lack of invitationals to any indy car race the more than blah rules package really has killed it
I have a real enjoyment of all indy races (the old CART days being what i grew up on.)
now Indy being a pavement racing series, the history is very sparse in many places.
F1 has Monza and Spa and the British GP rich stories and history.
LeMan is LeMans and the 1000Km races, Sebring etc.
Indy has the Indy 500
the whole calender has been made largely irrelevant. and no connection to histry is made or even mentioned (unlike NASCAR which even uses the Indy racetrack from day one to its advantage.)
The whole shemozzle has history (long beach is a forced disaster of a track really it is no Monaco and the races are not nearly as good as they pretend)
but they Ax Milwaukee- for poor attendance? well promote it better..
Chicago races have excellent finishes, they harp on it, IN race, but don't publish or coo it all over print and internet...
the Indy Japan is a good race as well with that weird shaped oval, but no mention of Prince O. from Japan who was an avid racer in the US at the beginning of the 1900's
no Nazareth?! the Altoona connection is to big to not do this, Watkins glen is great, but the Vanderbilt cup from LongIsland road races can be resurrected for the race. sorry for the long post.

furthermore, where is a Tacoma race? a board track was there, history and the region demand a new Indy car set up... the california races don't even mention Ascot or Beverly hills much, why isn't the USAC circus better aligned? make Indy part of the world if not NorthAmerica Again like NFL-Basball-NBA and shoot even Nascar now. Indy- the 500 and all the battles fought to win the war, should all be dreamed of by every kid in the US and well TG screwed it up and NASCAR has cleaned up.
They can fix it, but promotion, promotion and Magic needs to happen.
but theIndy 500 well maybe they can have qualifying racesfor it.
if you don't come in the top five you don't race.
and its a free for all for the last 15 spots...
the catch is monza podium, the Lemans podium, Sebring class winners and the Daytona 500, knoxville, eldora, chilibowl top 3 all get entries
if they don't want to race too bad, qualifying days are in May any one else can show up and try to get in.
and no rookies- unless you have qualified by the positions in the afored mentioned races
we could have kept Milka Dunoand AJ FOyt 4 out of this place a long time ago. ha ha

[The Snout]

The world has changed. The fossils at IMS are shocked they need to do more than just utter the word 'Indy' to get anywhere in this world.

It's going to take a long time to rebuild and frankly I see no one involved at the moment that can do it, either too old or selfish or both.

[ptclaus98]

As long as the Hulmans and TG control the series, it will continue to fail. They made Indy the giant, such a big race, and haven't done anything to bring the other tracks such as Long Beach, Milwaukee, Michigan, NHIS, Road America, and Laguna Seca with it. And also, because they mix the calendar so well, they miss out on the Gran Turismo crowd, who get weak knees and ruined pants at the mere mention of the corkscrew. They need to get their cars in GT, and Forza, for one. They need to get Indianapolis and the other ovals into GT, get the gamers in. Then they need to find a way to make Long Beach a crown jewel. That needs to be the glitz and the glamor. Go back to Road America and and Laguna with ALMS. Get Graham in some McDonalds commercials, get Ryan Hunter Reay to host something on MTV, get Dario in a movie. Speaking of which, get Patrick Dempsey to do the Indy 500.



The thing is, the average American's only exposure to IndyCar is the occasional Danica commercial, and the Indy 500, and even then they only know the Indy is a race, they don't know much about it. They don't know the short chute, they don't know gasoline alley. Hell, they'd probably look at you crazy if you mention Foyt or Mears. It's not visible.

[gttouring]

so sad and true
i don't know where to start but I am free to be in promotions for the IRL if any one wants to hire me. i'll do a racers view and a bang up job. >wink<
PM me.
ha ha ha
this is likely the best offer they'll get too! ha ha h a

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by The Snout

The world has changed. The fossils at IMS are shocked they need to do more than just utter the word 'Indy' to get anywhere in this world.

It's going to take a long time to rebuild and frankly I see no one involved at the moment that can do it, either too old or selfish or both.

Excellent point.

For 15 years now the irl apologists have used the word "Indy" as though it was some magic potion at the mere mention of the word it would soothe over all the destruction being wrought by tony george.

This indy gang reminds me of the Jaguar car company. In the 50's and 60's they produced innovative, stylish and fast cars and then spent the next 50 years trying to live off of that history. It nearly killed the company several times. I think now they are back to producing stylish, innovative and competitive cars and it will be a brand to beat in the future.

Indy hasn't reached that point of near death like Jaguar but they will soon. You can only live in the past so much and the narrow focus they have now is creepy as it is exactly similar to the late 70's and the formation of CART. The only problem is now there is no Dan Gurney to save us from nimrods in indiana.

I haven't heard much personally lately but I expect a bumpy off season from what I have heard is or isn't in the works.

[gomick]

What made CART so popular in the 80's & 90's - sure the sponsors where around more, but, there has to be more than just sponsors... Are the no-name international drivers the problem?

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by gttouring

so sad and true
i don't know where to start but I am free to be in promotions for the IRL if any one wants to hire me. i'll do a racers view and a bang up job. >wink<
PM me.
ha ha ha
this is likely the best offer they'll get too! ha ha h a

For real, I could make an IRL commercial for Nike, Adidas, Puma, and Gatorade, Monster, anything that a 16-35 could possibly want. It's not rocket science. If Tiger can make golf appealing in a commercial, there's no reason why IndyCar shouldn't be able to. They are too lazy to think they even need to.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by gomick

What made CART so popular in the 80's & 90's - sure the sponsors where around more, but, there has to be more than just sponsors... Are the no-name international drivers the problem?

I think this is part of the problem which leads us to the biggest problem... Nascar. It's much, much easier to be a Nascar fan. They spoon feed it to you.

Only nerds like me have time to watch Nascar, F1, IRL, and two sportscar races in one weekend.

[gttouring]

snicker snicker
i have known to spend a weekend doing the same
and heaven forbid i must be away from the Tube when Petit LeMans or LeMans or Sebring is happening

[Jay]

Originally Posted by DanicaFan

Personally, I wouldnt take too much creedance to it, I mean you were listening to a golf show, what do they know about action and racing.

Golf has to be one of the most boring things in the world to watch. So, they have no room to talk about viewers.

If you can say that about golf, with all of the viewers it has, what does that make Indycar? A freekin black hole?

Danica...isn't she a Nascar driver? Perhaps not just yet... but I bet most Americans would think so. I know most people I know think she is.... or rather just a girl who promotes Go Daddy skanks.

Most people still do know what the Indy 500 is...or was rather, but few would know anything about it from the past 15 years. I think the IRL is somewhat caught between a rock and a hard place - they need to improve their product, but they don't have the money to...and we'll see if they even have the money to keep it going.

[Jonerz]

Why was CART popular? Each race was an event. Each race had a certain aura about it. Innovation and speed ruled. Daredevil drivers drove groundbreaking cars at breakneck pace. The IRL has failed since day one because it was IndyCar racing dumbed down.

Chris

[johntt]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

Why was CART popular? Each race was an event. Each race had a certain aura about it. Innovation and speed ruled. Daredevil drivers drove groundbreaking cars at breakneck pace. The IRL has failed since day one because it was IndyCar racing dumbed down.

Chris

That is so true

[gomick]

They gotta drop the name "IRL" , CART or Indy Car or both sounded so much better...

[Purist]

GTTouring, Nazareth closed after the IndyCar race in 2004. I think it got developed over. The Milwaukee promoter cannot, at this time anyway, seem to pay the sanction fees to IndyCar and NASCAR (truck series), and pay the lease the Fair Board is charging for the use of the track.

Promotion definitely needs work. I've liked some of the long Firestone ads of late, but the Danica Patrick ads I just have to mute and not watch. And while more front-running Americans wouldn't hurt, there was no lack of foreign drivers in CART at its height. Each event needs to be, well, an event. Also, given all the NASCAR 500 milers, I think there should be a return to a Triple Crown now more than ever. While the street races are alright at current lengths, certainly the road course races should be more like 225-250 miles. And Road America should be a 300 miler on the Sunday after the sportscars go 500 miles.

Get Nissan, Toyota, Cosworth, Audi, and others in on engines; I really think a return to the higher, mean notes of the 2.65-litre turbos is in order, while maybe you have an equivalency to run alongside 3.5-litre normally-aspirated engines. Let Lola, Panoz, and Penske or whoever come up with chasses. Make these things sleek, clean, mean, and low. Give them 750-800hp on the ovals and 50hp on top of that for the road/street courses, with a set-up that delivers real throttle response and requires that the drivers have to lift off, or even brake, on the ovals.

And for goodness sake, don't run all 1.5-mile, moderately-banked ovals! If we had an 18-race schedule with an even split of ovals and other courses, the ovals would be Indy, Pocono, Michigan, Texas, Chicagoland, Motegi, Milwaukee, Rockingham (NC), and Iowa. I think these offer some good racing venues, and nobody can claim they're all boring, samey shapes. And part of me would love to see some exciting machinery return to that funky trapezoidal oval at Rio.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

Why was CART popular? Each race was an event. Each race had a certain aura about it. Innovation and speed ruled. Daredevil drivers drove groundbreaking cars at breakneck pace. The IRL has failed since day one because it was IndyCar racing dumbed down.

Chris

You hit the nail on the head. At one time I preferred CART to F1 even. Now I am indifferent to the Indycars and even miss the occassional race on TV, something I would never dream of doing for F1, CART, or the ALMS. Heck, I think I care more about Grand Am than about Indycar right now. I remember being in the paddock at CART races and there were multiple tire manufacturers, 6 engines, and 5 chassis. Now the ugly, outdated, slow, spec cars are hard to feel passionate about.

[cptkablamo]

I think we have hit the nail on the head as to why CART was popular but when we now consider Indy lack of popularity and fall from grace a number of things spring to mind. And I really don't think it has much to do with the Dallara Honda package. Sure things would be good if we have competition but the split created a huge psychological barrier to a lot of CART fans.

It was seen that the split ripped the heart out of the sport and jumped on it. It takes a lot to get over this and ICS needed to do a lot more in reaching out to disenfranchised fans to lure them back in.

I think they could have the best car package in the world but people wouldn't react just to that, since CART did have the best car and competition package around - the best names, the best tracks the best races. Simply reproducing that won't be enough, other bridge building will be needed to lure old fans back, and to diminish the awesome power that NASCAR currently wields.

Ultimately, though in the end, maybe the brand itself has too much negative history and is unusable...