Hold The Champagne - Mikey's Team Cheated!

[Liz]

CART FINES TEAM MOTOROLA $20,000 AFTER WINNING TOYOTA GRAND PRIX OF LONG BEACH ENTRY FAILS POST-RACE INSPECTION

LONG BEACH, Calif. (April 15, 2002) - Championship Auto
Racing Teams, Inc. (CART) has fined Team Motorola $20,000 after post-race inspection at Sunday's Toyota Grand Prix of Long Beach revealed that the team's race-winning #39 Motorola Honda Reynard did not meet the minimum underbody height requirement.

Specifically, Team Motorola was penalized for violating CART rule 9.4.6B which is more commonly known as the "2-inch rule." The #39 entry conformed to this rule in a pre-race inspection.

In accordance with CART rule 10.2.1, the penalty was assessed by CART Director of Technology and Competition Lee Dykstra with the concurrence of the CART stewards.

Both Team Motorola and race winning driver Michael Andretti will retain the Long Beach victory and all earned championship points in the event.

============

Well, at least I don't have to refigure all the scores. But another Michael "wins" another race with the connivance of the stewards. Ye Gods.

[Jay]

Well....as much as it pains me to say it, he and his team deserved the victory for some great strategy...so I think DQing him would be a little extreme.

I think the penalty should be something more than money though...perhaps removing time from his finishing time...that would maybe drop him a few places. ..or docking a few points.. Something that would mean something to Mikey.

[Knottsfreak]

Yikes. Man that truely sucks. I actually watched Andretties car getting inspected on Saturday in the paddocks, which was cool. I wonder how the team could over look this, or were they actually trying to cheat? Who knows, the fine is well in the boundaries, and to take points away isn't really cool, but should of been done. Puts a cloud over the Andretti team, hopefully they can have a good show in Japan.

[Airhead]

Michael is truely a God. You know this one all abiding fact to be true Liz. We should be grateful that he graces our championship so we can bath in his reflected magnificance.

Or, they may have just cheated.

I'll take option number one.

[Laagri]

Oh, how naive I have been.

I thought this kind of treatment from the stewards (i.e. not disqualifying an illegal car) only existed in F1. Like in Brazil 2000, when 5 of the top 6 had worn their planks down too much and should have failed scrutineering, but only Coulthard was disqualified because his front wing was too low. In other words, he had two illegal aspects to his car as compared the one illegal aspect on the other four cars, so he was disqualified. Poor old Fisichella, whose Benetton team had raised the ride height of the car to avoid precisely this problem and had therefore been slower as a result, was the only driver with a legal car and still didn't get the win!

My opinion on the matter? So what if Andretti drove well. So what if he had a great (i.e. lucky) strategy. He did it all with an illegal car. Disqualify him now!

[Liz]

I have been informed that Mikey "won" his first race at Long Beach in a similar way -- the car that actually "won" was disqualified for a similar violation that Mikey's car committed this time, and the same steward we have today (an old family friend of the Andrettis) awarded the win to P2 who was *drum roll* MICHAEL ANDRETTI!

Floppy shoes and red nose for Mr. Dallenbach please.

As for the fine, I figured out that Mikey earns roughly $250,000 per month, which makes a $20,000 fine (which no doubt the team will pay anyway) amount to about $50 to one of us.

[Airhead]

OK then. Can every one who reads down this far in the thread - send their $50 to me please.

[Liz]

How can you lose in this situation, though? Think of it: Your car is all weekend -- so you alter it after the pre-race scrutineering, knowing that even if you are caught running an illegal car, you pay a few pence and still get to keep the "victory"?

It'll be interesting to see what happens when someone else tries this and is caught. What do you want to bet a big fat DQ?

Is this what Champ Cars REALLY needs right now?

[John0087]

I agree with Jay....
What is $20,000.00 to a team like The Motorola/Green team? Docking time from his win would be a more just penalty. I am not a Michael Fan, as I think he races pretty dirty. However, I do think that he deserves this "win" or a top 5, and I do not think that he/Motorolla/Team Green cheated.

John

[Dr. Austin]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Liz
[B]I have been informed that Mikey "won" his first race at Long Beach in a similar way -- the car that actually "won" was disqualified for a similar violation that Mikey's car committed this time, and the same steward we have today (an old family friend of the Andrettis) awarded the win to P2 who was *drum roll* MICHAEL ANDRETTI!"


Specifically which race are you taking about? Super Vees?

[djb]

I have only just read the news in Autosport 2 minutes ago while eating my lunch. I am neither pro nor anti M.Andretti, but I do find it rather perplexing how that if a car fails a ride height test, it is not disqualified.
Were all the other cars under as well?
Lets face it, post race tech inspections are there for a reason, and I anxiously await to read more details of this case to try to figure out just what happened here, as this decision doesn't make sense.

[macdaddy]

What did CART to do Unser Jr several years ago when his car was riding too low at (Portland?)? I remember the car bottoming out on the backstretch, and if memory serves me, he was DQ'd. Was that the year that Penske appealed and nobody knew the exact championship standings for months?

[Dr. Austin]

Originally posted by macdaddy
What did CART to do Unser Jr several years ago when his car was riding too low at (Portland?)? I remember the car bottoming out on the backstretch, and if memory serves me, he was DQ'd. Was that the year that Penske appealed and nobody knew the exact championship standings for months?

Unser was re-instated after the championship was decided in the last race. If I remember correctly, it was the week after. The decision did not alter the championship standings, but JV went on record as saying it wasn't a very professional way to run a championship. It's too funny that he now runs a Honda, who expressed much the same sentiments, only more scatheing.

Jimmy Vasser lost his first CART win in that Portland appeal, but after the decision, he won the very next race at Homestead, following that up with wins at Surfer's and LBGP. And, of course, the CART PPG championship. He won the homestead race in a last laps shoot out, so I am sure he is more satisfied with how his first win really took place; On the road, not in the appeals court.

[The Beer Baron]

NASCAR doesn't alter the outcome of the race, if the punters go home only to find the winner DQ'd then thats bad.

if its good eneough for NASCAR its good eneough for anyone else

F1 always tinkered with race results, Malaysia 1999 comes to mind, what an embarrassment for them!

[Liz]

My source was incorrect -- an independent check reveals that it was Vasser who was the beneficiary of Unser's DQ, not Mikey.

Which shows it is valuable to check your sources, no matter how reliable they usually are.

[Dr. Austin]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Liz


"Which shows it is valuable to check your sources, no matter how reliable they usually are."

Well, you had better check your source again. Unser was re-instated, so Vasser had no benefit.

[The Beer Baron]

geez Austin, you never thought of being a motorsport's Journalist yourself

[Dr. Austin]

And, oh, by the way.....


Mikey won his first CART championship race at Long Beach, 1986. He outduelled LBGP master Unser jr in a wheel to wheel slugfest. He drove a blinder of a race and won in grand style with no controversy or official intervention. I think Liz owes a retraction to Michael Andretti and his fans.

[Dr. Austin]

Originally posted by The Beer Baron
geez Austin, you never thought of being a motorsport's Journalist yourself

Yes, but I know enough that my own personal opinions might have an effect on my reporting. So I had enough integrity to stay out of it. If you can't be completely honest, at least be honest enough to remove yourself.

From a literary standpoint, I have two book deals in the works. Internet scouts saw the "killed" thread and loved it. So now, I'm getting a thesis, a grant, and now, a book deal from one stupid gag. Comedy is tooooo sweeeeeeet! King George would surely approve!

It's cycle season, so........so long!!!!!!!!!!

[kmchow]

So what is the "consensus" of the "tribe"? Was Motorola caught cheating OOOORRR was it just the car settling ( structurally stressed???) to the point where it caused the car to sit lower than it should and thus failing the post-race inspection?

OTOH, we have just witnessed what 20K buys you in terms of PR and advertising. All this discussion and reporting on team MOTOROLA!!! Is Motorola happy or cringeing???

[Dr. Austin]

Cars fail tech inspection all the time. Sometimes the cars are DQed and sometimes there are other penalties. At least CART is consistant in that they have never had a race winning result overturned on appeal (except maybe that little Sanair thing). A sanctioning body has to be consistant in how it handles it's affairs in tech. Either you have a lenient attitude, or it's 100% by the book. The first method opens the body to accusations of favortism (which have already surfaced here), while the second has cars disqualified for battle inflicted violations. Or guys tossed out for being .01 out of spec.

We really don't know how far the car was out. If it was as little as .01 0r .03, I'de say it's fair to assume the team wasn't really trying to cheat. They just cut it too close. But if it is .5 to 1 inch or so out, I think a profesional team can set a car up better than that.

It isn't fair for us to make a judgment until we have some real numbers. My guess is that it was real close. The team was thrashing like mad dogs to get the new set up on the car and they may have just missed something. This is alot different than running traction control (when it was illegal) or deliberately cheating on the fuel or something similar. I think this was just a case of not meeting the measurements, which is still illegal. But it isn't the same thing as deliberate, blatantant cheating. That is probably why the car was not DQed.

[f1manoz]

If a driver/team cheat, or the car is at least found to be illegal, shouldn't that warrant instant disqualification?

It shouldn't matter if the driver or the team was at fault, the car is illegal.

[enemy-ace]

Even if Andretti and co. were cheating (which I personally don't think they were); they're running the car too low was hardly beneficial. Let's face it the only reason Andretti was in front was because of Team Rahal's error and not due to any blinding speed on Andretti's part. Andretti was just fast enough to keep Vasser behind on what is a notoriously tight track. In the end, if these guys were going to cheat don't you think that they're car would have been faster.

[Raoul Duke]

Originally posted by AMoffat
Michael is truely a God. You know this one all abiding fact to be true Liz. We should be grateful that he graces our championship so we can bath in his reflected magnificance.

Well gee Moff, I never figured you for a TGF fan?.

Oh wait it's Micheal Andretti were talking about here, completely forgot .

[Airhead]

You mean Schumacher wants to race? Really race another driver? Then send him to CART. I'll go see him at Surfers get his bottom spanked by Tracey and co.