engine problem solved

[nsxr]

i've given this one some thought and this might work with the increasing ties between cart and imsa why not use the 900 engines think of it. Pook gets this v10. you share in the developement of engines it benefits both series.plus it mewans reliabile and cheap engines plus a different engines watch
judd v10
audi turbo v8
mugen n/a v8
elan n/a v8
cosworth turbo v8
peugeot turbo v6
bwm turbo v8 [it was develpod by ascari but they broke but there hope]
ford n/a v8
bmw v12 [okay i'm dreaming on this one]

[Lee Janotta]

LMP-900 engines? Nah... There's just way too much of a deficiency between the best and worst engines, and it's just too complicated for a series like CART.

Formulas _that_ complicated just don't attract mass audiences.

[cybersdorf]

And, most of the N/A engines will be a tad big for the existing ChampCars.
Plus, the Judd isn't cheap, the Audi isn't available, the Ascari isn't ready, the Mugen isn't competitive,...
Also, the current LMP900 engines will go out of style by 2004 so there won't be much further development.

[alfasud]

O.k. hows this for a wild idea.... aussie V8 touring car engines? Over 600bhp from Chev/Ford stock block, fuel injected (no turbo), rev limited to 7500rpm and they last 1000km races.... got to be cheaper than some of the other options.

[Snrub]

Take 2 3.0L engines (1 n/a, 1 turbo), boost their power 50% to make them produce 450. Which is more reliable and would cost less? Turbo hands down. I don't know what engines they run in the Ausi V8 series, but if I was to take a Chevy 350 and wanted to crank out 600hp, forced induction is by far the easiest route and with a far better power band.

[alfasud]

The aussie V8 tourers are 5.0L V8's and are reliable over 1000km. Most of the engine internals are NASCAR. The power band is good enough for heavy touring cars on road and street circuits.

The point I was making is they are off the shelf, with the only adaption required being for installation in a single seater, and some remapping for the oval courses. The easiest and cheapist rule only really applies when starting from scratch.

[Lee Janotta]

Well, I put forward my suggestion before... Keep the current engines, add 3.0L stock-block turbo V6s, 6.0L pushrod V8s, which would essentially be NASCAR Winston Cup engines. All making about 800hp, equalized by boost levels. The N/A engines would be the benchmark, and the other engines would the same power.

It wasn't long ago we had a formula like that at Indy, and I loved it.

One cool thing we could have over IRL, with the V8s, would be intake scoops on the sides of the engine cover. Not like those dumb F3 deals, but big ram-air scoops right in the side of the bodywork to suck in air. The sound would be incredible around street courses (like a Panoz LMP-01, but even louder!).

[veeten]

...and this is why they put a "suggestion box" outside of many businesses, so that the staff can get a good laugh at the idiocy that the public comes up with.

the 3.0L "stock block" V6 turbo was tried by John Menard during the 80's to early 90's, and just like clockwork would breakdown by the 3/4 point of the I-500.

the 6.L NASCAR V8 engine has 2 problems: 1) Cast Iron; not good for a open wheel racecar of this caliber, where the weight will pose a slight imbalance to the steering, handling, and braking abilities. 2) Fuel mapping; what may work for a gasoline-powered engine isn't necessesarily transferable to a methanol-burning one. Consumption rate being the biggest nightmare for this idea. And remember, you only get an allotment of fuel for the race, no more-no less. You burn it up, too bad.

I'm sorry, but the term "noise decibel rules" would seem to have an ability of negating that last suggestion. It may sound like a great idea to you, but community organisations, zoning & permit committees, and other "interested parties" have an effective way of killing such notions, trust me on this.

[Lee Janotta]

*buzz!*

Sorry, but thanks for playing!

The "Menard" V6 was a Buick pushrod V6, cast-iron block. A block evolved from cutting two cylinders off a small-block Chevy. And it made a _lot_ of power. I'd suggest that modern engines would have much better survival rates.

You can get aluminum "NASCAR" blocks as well.

Who said they had to run methanol? And the allotment could be increased.

As for the noise, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. But they have CASCAR on the streets of Toronto, and ALMS does street races with the Panoz, and the massively loud 7.0L Saleens and Corvettes.

[veeten]

Oh, I get it. You had the knowledge that absolutely none of what you suggested was ever going to see the light of day, as far as actual rules changes were concerned.

It's nice to exercise ones' imagination, every once in a while.

[Lee Janotta]

If you think that's in the realm of fantasy, you should see the race tracks I design!

The V6s, I think, are a viable format. The V8s, due to the noise, probably are outside the realm of reality. Plus they'd have a big disadvantage due to fuel consumption, _unless_ refuelling was banned, in which case they could have slightly more power than the turbo engines, and would be faster late in the race once a lot of their extra fuel was burned off.

[Lee Janotta]

If you think that's in the realm of fantasy, you should see the race tracks I design!

The V6s, I think, are a viable format. The V8s, due to the noise, probably are outside the realm of reality. Plus they'd have a big disadvantage due to fuel consumption, _unless_ refuelling was banned, in which case they could have slightly more power than the turbo engines, and would be faster late in the race once a lot of their extra fuel was burned off.

[veeten]

or, the ECU could be designed with "grey logic" to modulate fuel consumption either by the driver or through telemetry by the pit engineers. It wouldn't be surprising to find this in most present F1 team's ECUs.

[Lee Janotta]

Oh, F1 teams don't give it a second thought. Fuel consumption's one of the easier things to adjust from the pits. Just drop the upshift point by about 3000RPM and lean out the fuel mixture a little bit.

[Snrub]

It was before my time so excuse my ignorance, Menard's stock block Buick V6 - it was based on the 3.8L grand national engine? There are lots of ordinary people running huge power on those things, I'm surprised they couldn't last the race distance.

[veeten]

that's the trade-off, you either sacrifice engine speed or boost pressure to get longer life out of those Indy-Menards.

It was definately under the "nice idea, while it lasted" file. While pretty good for road racing, under such conditions such as this or stock cars the same problems would occur.