TWR and Bathurst 1985

[lj79]

Never been to Oz, never been to Bathurst but follow Aussie tin tops on the box, net and press.

In the early 80's the XJS-s of TWR were the dogs ********.

What do Bathurst veterans recall of them?

What impact did they have on the racing fraternity down under?

Would Brock have caught Hahne / Goss?

Would Johnson / Perkins have challenged if the speed bumps in pit lane hadn't done an oil cooler of the wheel was screwed on properly?

Any insights would be gratefully received.

Cheers

[Falcadore]

Welllll.... the XJS had an interesting seven year love affair with the Mountain. Gossies original Group C XJS showed flashes of potential over the years but it wasn't until TWR got involved in Goss Group C in 1984 that it showed any pace at all.

By 1985 of course TWR were running Rovers, indeed those Rovers had taken class victory at Bathurst the previous year, but the long straights better suited the BRG Behemoths, that and a high rankikng Australian wrench for TWR sold the deal with Ron Dickson and the JRA group.

[cavvy]

Highlight for me: Snappy Tom on pole, & Gossy the hero at the end of the day - Boys own stuff.
The previous year the Goss XJS co driven by Tom Walkinshaw was taken out in a starting line incident, I could have cried as the car was reputed to have all the TWR bits on it & planned to be there at the end of the day.

The inability to attract some of the worlds best drivers is probably the worst feature of our current Tourers, Nascar Aussie style.

[lj79]

Originally Posted by cavvy

Highlight for me: Snappy Tom on pole, & Gossy the hero at the end of the day - Boys own stuff.
The previous year the Goss XJS co driven by Tom Walkinshaw was taken out in a starting line incident, I could have cried as the car was reputed to have all the TWR bits on it & planned to be there at the end of the day.

The inability to attract some of the worlds best drivers is probably the worst feature of our current Tourers, Nascar Aussie style.

Didnt Walkinshaw burn the clutch out waiting for the green in 84 in Goss's car, hence being a sitting duck?

Bathurst 85 is THE race that I wish had attended. Got the video and the book, but having followed the grpA cats since '82 this was their biggest win (imo) - even eclipsing Spa 24 in 84.
Just because (and this is only an impression I get) lots of the regulars i.e. Dick Johnson, Grice, Brock slated the cars and seemed ****ed that a Euro team came to the Mountain and stole the show.

[Average Punter]

One of those special memories that come hauntingly back to me when I stand at Skyline on a quiet day...

A V12 on full song across the top. What a noise!!!

[kramer]

I thought that Richards might have been in a postion to challenge as well, were it not for falling off on some oil.

It was a race where Goss won by keeping his head, while everyone else lost theirs - Brock was flying but would probably have run out of laps.

Yeah, they sounded good, those jags, didnt they.


Kramer

[Dingo]

And had Walkinshaw not run out of oil he would have won...

Brock wouldn't have caught Goss, the Jag had it pretty much in the bag. Johnson would have been between Cecotto and Walkinshaw at the end had the Mustang not had its problems. Hey, even Gricey could have been in contention had he not had problems in the first few laps...

Probably the biggest lesson learnt was that the level of professionalism in the TWR team was what would be needed to make it in the Group A era...

[FalconEL]

Originally Posted by kramer

I thought that Richards might have been in a postion to challenge as well, were it not for falling off on some oil.

Got to agree with you Kramer, Richards/Longhurst were desperately unlucky in 1985. The JPS BMW 635's were a beautifully engineered piece of kit, looked fantastic and were super quick. Much faster than the Schnitzer version thanks to the genius of Frank Gardner.

Whether or not they would have beaten Walkinshaw's car that day is hard to say but certainly they would have made less pit stops and may not have had to change pads as often. I'd say Richards/Longhurst would have had the measure of virutally every other car in the field, including Gossy, except for the sandpit incident at Hell Corner

[Sultan]

Agreed FalcEL, to this day I think the JPS 635 would've won the race, with either Goss or the DJR Mustang (damn those speed bumps!!) up there. Both the 635 & the Mustang seemed to be consitant the whole stint...

[racer69]

The BMWs could run from memory 55 or so laps on a tank of fuel, meaning they could have got through on only 2 stops. 3 was probably the go though.

The Schnitzer/Gould/Bob Jane BMW had an engine problem all day and was down on power, but the JPS 635s had the wood on them all weekend, after final qualifying (prior to Hardies Heroes), Richards was the fourth fastest, behind the 3 Jaguars. (Ravaglia and Schnitzer's moment came in 1986, in the outdated BMW 635, he put it in second behind Grice after qualifying, but it all went south on Saturday and Sunday that year)

I think the media thought it was a nice story to say that Brock would have caught Goss if he didn't have the timing chain failure, and Brock has gone along with it. Brock was still 35 odd seconds behind the #10 Jag with 4 laps to go, and wasn't catching him enough at that stage because Goss had raised his pace despite the broken seat.

And even if Brock was catching Goss quick enough, Walkinshaw was in between them on the road, and could have held Brock up if there was a threat to a Jaguar win.

At the same time Brock was after Goss and Ravaglia's BMW, Walkinshaw was closing on the Richards BMW, 3 laps behind. All these 4 cars were very close on the track within the last 15 laps. Walkinshaw and Richards were running quicker than Brock, and Richards to an extent hurt his protection of 4th place (which became 3rd) by trying to stay out of Brocks way.

It really was an exciting end to what i thought was a very good race. The Jaguars added to it on my opinion, and after all, one of the reason's Group A was adopted in Australia was the international appeal.

[Wrighty05]

There wasn't much difference between Brock and Richards pace at the end. Brock caught and passed him and Richards stayed glued to his bumper from then on.

I do agree, that Richo/No baloney would have won if it wasn't for the sand trap incident. Brock would have been more competitive if he didn't have to have 2 stops to fix a windscreen, which cost him 1 minute all up, Dick would have been thereabouts if it wasn't for the speedbumps and a centre locking wheel, Gossy's seat, Uncle Tom's oil cooler.... What if?

One thing we can agree on, is that it was a corker of a race and especially in the last 30 odd laps, we witnessed some brilliant driving.

[Henry]

My recollection was of a marvellous race... the Jag's were HUGE news to a 13 yo... but the whole spectacle was magnificent. We expected big things from TWR, as Wlakinshaw had made the Goss Jaguar into a rough sort of silk purse the year before, and it had been disappointing that the clutch had expoded at the start that year.

I expected the Jag's to run away with it, although the improvement in the green Mustang's form in the leadup to Bathurst meant that I held it as a sentimental possibility. The JPS Bimmer had won everything else, so it was expected that JR would be a shot for it too... consiering how many laps they lost in the sand, and then where they were at the finish, you would have to say that they were a real threat for victory. A similar tale for #17: it was quick, it had a well-matcheed driving line-up, and the problems that ultimately let it down were avoidable... one that got away...

The Commodores didn't really look like a winning package: Grice set the Holden pace during most of the week, but Brock did a stupendous job, compensating for a co-driver who never got near his lap times, and driving the back end off the thing to the last... he was never closer to Goss than the length of Mountain Straight, but withou the stops to remove the glass, it might well have been a bit different...

[Gaz170]

AFAIK Gossy's Jag & Brocky's Commodore were doing about the same lap times near the end of the race. Tom in his Jag was quicker after having replaced his oil cooler.
Dick's Mustang was never in the hunt after it's early problems, it's a wonder the motor lasted most of the day without the oil cooler.
Jim was plain unlucky, if it wasn't for the oil he may have been challenging for the lead at the end, he had the pace to be there. Don't forget the Baigent/Lowe BMW which matched the Schnitzer car for times until it had a bad vibration due to an out of balance wheel. The Volvo showed us where turbo's were going.
Gricey looked good at the start, don't know how the car would have done 163 laps at that pace though.
It was definitely a race of attrition, with Gossy surviving to take the win.

BTW, it was reported later that Brocky nearly got Allan Moffat to be his co-driver for that race, but things didn't happen in time. THAT would have been interesting.

[paydirt]

The 1985 race was the first year that Moffat was a full-time commentator with Ch7.

Part of his job was to road test each car that made it into the top 10....except Snappy Tom wouldn't allow anyone near his precious TWR Jaguars.

Moffat had to settle for the next best thing....Willmington's 'red rocket' XJS !

[Crowestar]

Originally Posted by Henry

Brock did a stupendous job, compensating for a co-driver who never got near his lap times

Well David Oxton wasn't invited back after that.

[Falcadore]

paydirt: and after testing the Mustang he and Dick and Graham Moore (who was distraught over the inability of hi Starion to achieve walking pace) started work on a deal to put Moffat and Moore's Belgian co-driver, Michel Delcourt into the about to be scratched #18 Mustang the Larry Perkins drove in Hardies Heroes.

But it was not to be.

[racer69]

In 1984 a similiar type of deal was attempted with the #42 Moffat Mazda that made Hardies Heroes driven by Gregg Hansford. He and Moffat were of course entered in #43 car that was also in the Top 10. Win Percy had come to Australia with Walkinshaw to have a look, and moves were in place to get him into the second Mazda, he even did some laps in the final practice session on Saturday afternoon, but not enough to get him into the race.

Oxten and Brock had a history of co-driving Commodore's in NZ endurance races in the past, which presumebly was one of the reason's Oxten was in the car. I guess Harvey or Parsons could have been transferred to 05 though.

Another interesting part of the 1985 Great Race was the 11 car Hardies Heroes (beaten only by the 12 car Top Ten in 1988).

The #18 DJR Mustang had qualified within the Top 8 and therefore couldn't be bumped from the HH entry by the organisers (as had happened in earlier years). The ARDC however assumed/expected/wanted DJR to withdraw the #18 car before Hardies Heroes, so they told the Bob Jane/Gould/Schnitzer BMW they were in. Johnson was interested in the running the second car in the race though (as Falcadore says). After abit of political wrangling it was decided that, seeing as #18 couldn't be bumped, and the Ravaglia #21 BMW was already invited, they'd run it for 11 cars.

[Falcadore]

Do you think if race organisers had prevented the #21 BMW from appearing in the Top Ten, Bob Jane might have sued CAMS?