The Turkish Grand Prix

[Kicking-back]

A thoroughly entertaining race on an excellent circuit, I thought.

Great drive by Kimi Raikkonen.

Shame Monteiro was asleep.

[neilap]

1 K. Räikkönen McLaren 1:24:34.45 2
2 F. Alonso Renault 19.0 2
3 J. Montoya McLaren 20.0 2
4 G. Fisichella Renault 38.0 2
5 J. Button BAR 40.0 2
6 J. Trulli Toyota 56.0 2
7 D. Coulthard Red Bull 60.0 2
8 C. Klien Red Bull 72.0 2
9 T. Sato BAR 80.0 1
10 R. Barrichello Ferrari + 1 lap 2
11 J. Villeneuve Sauber + 1 lap 2
12 R. Schumacher Toyota + 1 lap 2
13 R. Doornbos Minardi + 3 lap 2
14 N. Karthikeyan Jordan + 3 lap 3
15 T. Monteiro Jordan + 3 lap 3
16 C. Albers Minardi out 5
17 M. Schumacher Ferrari out 4
18 N. Heidfeld Williams out 3
19 F. Massa Sauber out 2
20 M. Webber Williams out 3



The Mac is so much faster than the rest of the field. Reliability has cost or will cost Kimi the title. They will need tons of luck to make that up. JB also drove an impressive race. He was on pace with Fisi for some parts of the race and faster on others. Its a shame he could have have kept his qualifying together. I think BARH would have been on the podium. Anyway excellent race. I like the track.

[Menelaos]

I was about to start this thread. So, I really enjoyed the gp, one of the best we had this year. Raikkonen was impressive and what I trully admire in him is his ability to perform PERFECTLY right after everything has been totally frustrating to him. I mean, it was so cruel that he had all these problems last months and still he managed to be perfect every time. And this goes on.

Other than that, I really liked the circuit. Now we have another circuit like "ah, three more laps to go, he needs to take turn 8 three more times, will he do it correctly?" Very nice circuit and quite unique at some points. And it's a "fair" circuit too, I mean, if you're good you'll get to the front.

I don't know what happened between JPM and Monteiro, but if I were Monteiro I'd stay away from the colombian for a few weeks. On the other hand, MS or KR would never try to get past in the stupid (sorry) way JPM tried to. Man, you're 15 seconds ahead of Alonso, you don't NEED to try and pass Monteiro if he's for any reason (probably unacceptable, but still) at that very moment. Just wait for a good point, it's not THAT far!! I'd like to see a good replay of the whole thing though.

BAR could probably be faster than Renault today. I'm very glad Sato received that penalty it was 100% fair. But it's "unfair" that Button did so bad in qualifying, he could have been third behind the two McLarens. And Raikkonen could be 21 points behind Alonso, instead of 24.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Menelaos

.

On the other hand, MS or KR would never try to get past in the stupid (sorry) way JPM tried to..

Are you having a laugh? That was the part of the track where most of the overtaking was being made. Where else was he meant to have a go, or do you think he should have stayed behind Monteiro for the last 3 laps? Losing 4 seconds a lap to Fernando, with Fernando only 10 seconds behind.

[Knowlesy]

Silly stuff from Monteiro. Anyone who tries to emulate Jos Verstappen needs their head checked.

Shame, McLaren should've raked in 18 points.

Pointless trivia time: which is the only team to finish 1-2 all season?

[Kicking-back]

Ferrari

[Knowlesy]

Yep.

And even then I guess it was somewhat hollow.

[Liz]

On the other hand, MS or KR would never try to get past in the stupid (sorry) way JPM tried to.

Oh come now -- even David Hobbes agreed that TGF rammed Webber in an attempt to get by him! The idol has always had feet of clay, but now even the press are beginning to admit it -- when are you going to join them?

This doesn't take away from the mendacity of JPM in trying to blame Montiero for his own stupid move, especially after Ron Dennis had already admitted the truth, but let's not pretend that TGF hasn't done the same thing more than once.

[Kicking-back]

I don't think it was - they had by far the best package in terms of balancing speed and reliability - but that's an old debate anyway.


I wouldn't be surprised to see both McLaren and Renault have 1-2 finishes before the end of the season.

[Knowlesy]

I'd be surprised if Renault got one. In fact, I'd be surprised to see Fisi on the podium again this year the way things seem to work out....

[Russ-Turner]

Like Brundle said...amazingly average.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Liz

This doesn't take away from the mendacity of JPM in trying to blame Montiero for his own stupid move, especially after Ron Dennis had already admitted the truth,

Ron didn't lay the blame at JPM's door, and is it his fault he was rammed from behind by another driver?

[touringlegend]

Thoroughly good few first few laps to the race, now thats the sort I'd like to see in F1.


Dissapointed Button started where he did, otherwise could well of been a very different race.

[marcel82]

I quite liked the track, too, but they'll have to change the last 3 turns, because those were completly pointless, imho

[Bleu]

Originally Posted by Mr V

Are you having a laugh? That was the part of the track where most of the overtaking was being made. Where else was he meant to have a go, or do you think he should have stayed behind Monteiro for the last 3 laps? Losing 4 seconds a lap to Fernando, with Fernando only 10 seconds behind.

Montoya shouldn't have moved to the right there. If he had kept the line he used when he passed Monteiro, he would have not been hit.

[maximus]

How do we not know Montiero let him pass there?

[JeremySmith]

Great race I thought. Michael Schumacher needs to be spanked for that move on Webber very arrogant on his behalf. He was having such a poor weekend why ruin MW day?

[neilap]

MS is a racer and sometimes I think even he makes poor decisions in the heat of things. I think that Sato's race was ruined by the decision to put him at the back of the grid. They had communications issues and Sato drove off the track when he saw Webber. The penalty was extreme. Looking at his times Sato could have been ahead of the Red Bull team.

I hope BARH can play a hand in making the drivers and constructors title even more exciting. They are still nowhere near Maclaren but they are getting pretty close to Renault. In fact they qualified much heavier than them and would have still been ahead of both drivers were not for the "incident". If JB can get his car on the podium a few more times he may manage to help the chase for the drivers title come down to the wire.

...yes, I am hating on Renault...

[Menelaos]

Originally Posted by Mr V

Are you having a laugh? That was the part of the track where most of the overtaking was being made. Where else was he meant to have a go, or do you think he should have stayed behind Monteiro for the last 3 laps? Losing 4 seconds a lap to Fernando, with Fernando only 10 seconds behind.

Yes, it was the part of the track that's right to overtake. But JPM was not trying to overtake a Ferrari or a Williams or a BAR or a Toyota or even a Redbull. He was trying to LAP a JORDAN. He could have done it ANYWHERE, Monteiro HAD TO let him past. So I don't think losing 1-2 seconds to Alonso would be that bad, compared to what happened.

[JohnSSC]

I agree with Neilap's assessment of the MS/MW incident. As it turns out, neither Ferrari nor the Williams were really ready for the game today.

In regard to JPM/Montiero, I mean really, "mendacity" in JPM's part? Monteiro was nothing more than lapped traffic and as such he should have been watching his mirrors and then let JPM through. But no, ever since Indy he is now (in his mind I believe) a "podium finisher" and therefore thinks that he is always racing for position. By not yielding sooner he forced JPM to pass him as if it were a pass for position and then clocked him in the gearbox for his trouble.

I have noticed this with Tiago for some time - no matter how far back he is he is always driving the line as if he were actually competitive with everyone else.

For a Tilke-ring as some have called his tracks, this one actually encouraged some decent racing.

[Clive]

Good race, good result, good comments and discussions. just what we need!! keep it up

[Hip Priest]

I really enjoyed today's race. Lot's of action, lot's of quality performances, lots of drama, and.........a genuinely exciting circuit!

I've got to give credit to Hermann Tilke on this occasion. For some reason, i find that circuits with different elevations are more exciting.

[429CJ]

About Monteiro-Montoya accident:
On MTV3 race coverage, the commentator Mika Salo suspected Montoyas car sucking the air out of Monteiros front wing, when Montoya steered so aggressively back to racing line.

[Adam43]

That certainly could happen. Monteiro would probably lose downforce.

It is difficult to say too much as I've only seen it from in front. With the foreshortening effect you can't tell how far Montoya was ahead when he pulled back in.

Monteiro should perhaps of anticipated that better, but equally Montoya could have been much more cautious as Alonso wasn't near him. A silly mix-up either way. It doesn't seem like Montoya is making a big thing about it, which is probably a fair reflection on it.

[nkh]

Originally Posted by 429CJ

About Monteiro-Montoya accident:
On MTV3 race coverage, the commentator Mika Salo suspected Montoyas car sucking the air out of Monteiros front wing, when Montoya steered so aggressively back to racing line.

Tom Kristensen said the same thing on Danish television after the race. Montoya moved across, removing the downforce on Monterios front, coursing him to lock up his front wheels.