HRT/TWR Cars

TSR · 15 Jun 2007, 10:49 (Ref:1937588)

We all know that there is a 4 car HRT TEAM, but after watching the Creek meeting on TV. I noticed that even the drivers are now saying that they are racing against a 4 car HRT TEAM and not 2 separate teams as both Holden & VE$A try to tell us.

So much for TEGA doing there job properly

billy bigtime · 15 Jun 2007, 10:53 (Ref:1937591)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSR

We all know that there is a 4 car HRT TEAM, but after watching the Creek meeting on TV. I noticed that even the drivers are now saying that they are racing against a 4 car HRT TEAM and not 2 separate teams as both Holden & VE$A try to tell us.

So much for TEGA doing there job properly

Tell us something we don't know

n.kuiper · 15 Jun 2007, 11:05 (Ref:1937597)

yea its definately a four car team they share everything so they have all the benefits of a four car team but it shouldnt be allowed data sharing should only be allowed between two single car teams or else just a bit stupid. If something isnt done to stop it i think we will see other teams doing it in the future maybe triple 8 and stones could try it.

billybanana · 15 Jun 2007, 11:07 (Ref:1937601)

Quote:

Originally Posted by n.kuiper

so they have all the benefits of a four car team

yeah like reduced number of test days.

dsg · 15 Jun 2007, 14:45 (Ref:1937728)

Quote:

Originally Posted by billybanana

yeah like reduced number of test days.

You mean after the VE was given a supercar logbook.

Pro Racer · 15 Jun 2007, 16:17 (Ref:1937792)

do we really need another disscusion on this topic.

Buckshot · 16 Jun 2007, 01:09 (Ref:1938075)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro Racer

do we really need another disscusion on this topic.

Ford fans are bad losers, as long as a Holden wins anything they'll always be whinging and there will be threads like this.

I've always thought Kleenex are missing a golden sponsorship oppurtunity, If they could become the official tissue to V8 Supercar (like that deal Jim Beam have) the sales to Ford fans in tissues alone from all the crying would pay for a race budget and then some.

stmorri · 16 Jun 2007, 01:47 (Ref:1938084)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buckshot

Ford fans are bad losers, as long as a Holden wins anything they'll always be whinging and there will be threads like this.

Isn't it the case that Garry Rogers is also fed up with the situation?......I can't imagine that he is a Ford Fan!

Buckshot · 16 Jun 2007, 02:04 (Ref:1938086)

GRM haven't been on the pace (except for McConville's fluke win at Winton) since Tander & Bargs left and they also let themselves get distracted with that Monaro that killed Nation's Cup.

stmorri · 16 Jun 2007, 02:59 (Ref:1938102)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buckshot

GRM haven't been on the pace (except for McConville's fluke win at Winton) since Tander & Bargs left and they also let themselves get distracted with that Monaro that killed Nation's Cup.

That's not the issue......he is a loyal and long term Holden team owner that is not being allowed to compete on equal terms.

MPA · 16 Jun 2007, 07:01 (Ref:1938160)

Quote:

Originally Posted by stmorri

That's not the issue......he is a loyal and long term Holden team owner that is not being allowed to compete on equal terms.

So we're going back to the future.....Remember the Group C era when unless you were in the factory backed HDT you never had a chance. Guys like Grice never stood a chance in their own cars.

For a couple of years in this V8 supercar era we got to a point where all the cars were equalish. Seems that's all gone again.

Shame about that.

deeks6 · 16 Jun 2007, 07:22 (Ref:1938168)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MPA

So we're going back to the future.....Remember the Group C era when unless you were in the factory backed HDT you never had a chance. Guys like Grice never stood a chance in their own cars.

For a couple of years in this V8 supercar era we got to a point where all the cars were equalish. Seems that's all gone again.

Shame about that.

... which is the whole problem with "control" everything and compulsory pit stops etc etc ... no leeway for an innovative non-factory team to try different stuff that might work better.

If you have "Equal" everything, there is far MORE chance that the biggest spending factory team will win everything rather than less. This is just LOGIC - if the tiniest gain means an advantage on the track, the team who soends the most to find that little edge will win.

Look at NASCAR - they spend more on aerodynamics than F1 - on windscreen, roof profile, wedge etc - stuff you would'nt think would make a difference. You may find the Walkinshoddys do some very similar things - oh, and they have the most money ... gosh.

I think this series needs a dramatic rethink before it kills itself (and us) with boredom.

#Thirty4 · 16 Jun 2007, 07:56 (Ref:1938178)

How much closer racing do you want? (Tripple Eight & HRT at Eastern Creek) TSR and deeks6, im not sure what will make you happy. Talk about flogging the dead horse over and over again.

n.kuiper · 16 Jun 2007, 08:11 (Ref:1938186)

yea exactly some people will always complain i suppose they forget about when ambrose and other drivers have dominated you are never going to get a championship with 13 different round winners there will always be a driver or team that is dominant

TSR · 16 Jun 2007, 08:27 (Ref:1938193)

Quote:

Originally Posted by deeks6

...
I think this series needs a dramatic rethink before it kills itself (and us) with boredom.

Thats what this series has being like since the end of 2004. BORING.

Buckshot · 16 Jun 2007, 08:36 (Ref:1938197)

Quote:

Originally Posted by n.kuiper

always be a driver or team that is dominant

Exactly, that's just the nature of motor sport. Look at the way Schu dominated F1 for a few years there, The Audis have dominated ALMS, Loeb in the WRC.

Some people on this forum tend to think motorsport should be this magical Utopian land where everybody is regurlarly visited by the victory pixie.

pete55 · 16 Jun 2007, 09:32 (Ref:1938214)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buckshot

Exactly, that's just the nature of motor sport. Look at the way Schu dominated F1 for a few years there, The Audis have dominated ALMS, Loeb in the WRC.

Some people on this forum tend to think motorsport should be this magical Utopian land where everybody is regurlarly visited by the victory pixie.

All of the series you mentioned are not a parity based series. That's what makes this different.

Pro Racer · 16 Jun 2007, 11:10 (Ref:1938263)

we know fellow Holden competitors Tasman, JDRand GRM (not to sure about SCAR and PMM/RNR) and ford competitiors and fans alike are getting jack of it i am and i like the WP drivers but i like more then a 4 car 1 team race and am sick of the domination as well. the best race was R3 EC and the only evidence i have seem ford can keep up maybe 888 have got their game on and made gains or is EC just a good track for them? so we know the facts and non-facts about this issue so do we reallly need discusion after discusion about this issue.

can a ford clean sweep a round so this stuff stops.

STEALTHY · 16 Jun 2007, 13:02 (Ref:1938327)

Take a walk across the paddock maybe?

3 VIP porches, 3 glenfords (maybe 2 this year, were 3 last)

Thought i also saw 3 kanga Utes in one of the first years of the brutes

And across the pond we had 3 Audi's back in the day of BTCC

I think DJR were even running 3 in the devolpment series a while back.

JDR can't be compaining, a few years back Larry was contemplating having a 3 or 4 car team.

The whining is getting old now, if they are such a 4 car team, could you please go down there and paint all 4 cars the same. Data sharing is legal, which is the reason for less test days.

Would peoples opinions be different if the reams with more than 2 cars weren't winning? Back to the days where there were 3 Wynns cars, and they barly got a result.....

I like the idea of bigger teams, just because a team has more cars, doesn't mean it will win. Look at SBR, ambrose was a gun, yet ingall could barely finish. Clearly showing one car is totally different to the other

v8smoker · 16 Jun 2007, 13:18 (Ref:1938354)

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete55

All of the series you mentioned are not a parity based series. That's what makes this different.

Parity over the two manafacturers not the teams,How much closer can you get them suspension points areo engine etc all very close.

What you want is sucess ballast to slow down the better teams an drivers, so the not so good get a chance at winning,
Why not bring right back to club level so its fun for eveyone an even the slow cars get a chance to win, they could have a handicap race to end the day.

STEALTHY · 16 Jun 2007, 13:31 (Ref:1938373)

Maybe they should just run SSs and XR8s, completely stock with just a roll cage......

Pro Racer · 16 Jun 2007, 15:18 (Ref:1938536)

or maybe have TW build all the Holden cars and SBR or 888 to build the fords with everything as control parts, then they are all matched and if one is slower than the other then it's the team and their setup

.

mmciau · 16 Jun 2007, 23:14 (Ref:1939150)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buckshot

Exactly, that's just the nature of motor sport. Look at the way Schu dominated F1 for a few years there, The Audis have dominated ALMS, Loeb in the WRC.

Some people on this forum tend to think motorsport should be this magical Utopian land where everybody is regurlarly visited by the victory pixie.

The subject cars are well prepared, well engineered and on top of that, the Drivers are able to relate to the setup of the cars.

Mike

stmorri · 16 Jun 2007, 23:37 (Ref:1939184)

Quote:

Originally Posted by v8smoker

What you want is sucess ballast to slow down the better teams an drivers, so the not so good get a chance at winning,

Thanks v8, that's what I've been saying also. But not so much ballast that a car is not competitve. What I have been thinking is that the fastest cars only carry enough ballast, not to hurt their qualifying speed but to just take the edge off their lap times towards the end of a race (due to tyre wear) so as to enable those behind to mount some pressure. Hopefully it might mimic the glory days when the GTHO's would get to an early lead only to be under pressure at race end by the XU1's. Let's get away from the boring processional racing!

WebberForWDC · 16 Jun 2007, 23:39 (Ref:1939186)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buckshot

Some people on this forum tend to think motorsport should be this magical Utopian land where everybody is regurlarly visited by the victory pixie.

Yes bring back the reverse grid races, get rid of the pitstops and allow blocking that ought to assist Gurr and co on their way to picking up the victory pixie dust.

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