Grade confusion

[Sparky-steve]

I'm i little confused about how to get from trainee to track marshal.

I'm OK with the number of days on post etc
and training days
what i can't understand is this blue book I've heard about.
OK i need to know the rules, great, no problem with that,
but where do i get the rules from?
looked at threads on here and MSA web site
and seems impossible to get hold of, unless your at an advanced level.

can anyone enlighten me to how?
as this is my goal for next yr in tango
thanks guys and gals

[White flag man]

Unless you want to be Clerk of the Course, or have insomnia, I wouldn't worry too much about the blue book. Upgrading from trainee to track is simply about number of meetings, number of training days, and a brief assesment about what you know about marshalling and what a marshal does.

[Steven Humphrey]

Originally Posted by White flag man

Unless you want to be Clerk of the Course, or have insomnia, I wouldn't worry too much about the blue book. Upgrading from trainee to track is simply about number of meetings, number of training days, and a brief assesment about what you know about marshalling and what a marshal does.

I had my upgrade assessment just over a week ago and wasn't quizzed on the rules. Everything you need to know is in the small red 'Pocket guide to marshalling' book. I got one with my MSA card plus my BMMC membership so if you haven't got one, either of those sources should be able to help.

[Sparky-steve]

well i do have insomnia

ok just to get it clear in my mind LOL

i need to do 10days min on post?
and training days biannually? (so how many do i have to do as a min?)
as i'm planning on attending the next training day, which would be my first, is this enough?

many thx white flag man

[Sparky-steve]

Originally Posted by arnage arnie

I had my upgrade assessment just over a week ago and wasn't quizzed on the rules. Everything you need to know is in the small red 'Pocket guide to marshalling' book. I got one with my MSA card plus my BMMC membership so if you haven't got one, either of those sources should be able to help.

right now this is making sense to me a little.
not yet got my BMMC and MSA membership stuff yet, awaiting due the the back log.
maybe i should wait until i get them and take it from there LOL

[White flag man]

Originally Posted by Sparky-steve

well i do have insomnia

ok just to get it clear in my mind LOL

i need to do 10days min on post?
and training days biannually? (so how many do i have to do as a min?)
as i'm planning on attending the next training day, which would be my first, is this enough?

many thx white flag man

Just remember Steve.
Don't try and upgrade too early. There have been many discussions on this forum about the "Trainee" tag. Just think about how much experience you have had and what you've been involved in. Remember, as a "track" marshal, you may be asked to look after trainees. Do you feel you know enough to do that? I would leave it for another 12mths and enjoy, it will help you in the long run. I been doing it 5 years, at over 30 meetings (50 days per year) and I'm still only a "track" marshal. Don't really want to upgrade as I love it on the bank so much. Don't want to put you off, just don't want you to peak too soon!
BTW you need to do one training day every 2 years.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Sparky-steve

i need to do 10days min on post?
and training days biannually? (so how many do i have to do as a min?)
as i'm planning on attending the next training day, which would be my first, is this enough?

I assume from what you're saying that you've read the Grading Assessment Guide? If not, it's here:

http://marshals.co.uk/resources/52972829732.pdf

There's a flow chart on page 15 which shows the number of days on post & the training required for upgrading. Remember that the number of days on post for each upgrade is an absolute minimum - my personal feeling is that double that would be a more realistic figure.

. . . and make sure that when they sign your card, Post Chiefs also add something on the comments page!

If you really insist on reading the Blue Book it's here:

http://www.msauk.org/site/cms/conten...p?category=404

- but don't worry, most Post Chiefs have never even seen a Blue Book!

Oh, & by the way, the biennial (not biannual!) requirement is for people who just want to maintain their existing grade.

[Bodysnatcher]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

- but don't worry, most Post Chiefs have never even seen a Blue Book!

yeah, what Dave says..

my excuse is that I would have to buy one and the MSA refuse to recognise me on-line (and who can blame them!)

[Guinness2702]

Originally Posted by White flag man

Remember, as a "track" marshal, you may be asked to look after trainees.

As a "track" marshal, I've been post chief a few times. Come to think of it, I did that as a trainee once.

Seriously, don't worry about that. If that happens and you don't think you know enough to look after someone else, let alone yourself, tell someone. In terms of what you will be asked to do, upgrading to track is not a hell of a lot more than a paper exercise. On any given day simply let your post chief know what you do and don't know, and what you are happy/confident to do, and what you aren't. Never be afraid to ask a question! We have a saying round here: "The only stupid question is the one you don't ask!"

[Matthews Dad]

Originally Posted by Sparky-steve

I'm i little confused about how to get from trainee to track marshal.

I'm OK with the number of days on post etc
and training days
what i can't understand is this blue book I've heard about.
OK i need to know the rules, great, no problem with that,
but where do i get the rules from?
looked at threads on here and MSA web site
and seems impossible to get hold of, unless your at an advanced level.

can anyone enlighten me to how?
as this is my goal for next yr in tango
thanks guys and gals

When you have your marshals registration card from the MSA you can get your personal log in to the MSA web site with your individual marshals registration number, this will allow you to view the online version of the blue book ( MSA competitors and officials year book) which is the bible for all the rukes for all disciplines of motorsport

As white flag man says dont be too quick to upgrade as the expectations of your skills and ability will go up

I went from trainee to course (track) in one season (with previous rally and sprint marshalling experience) but have then deliberately taken two seasons to go up to the next grade of experienced as wanted to get more experience with the expactation (born out by events) that once I had got this far I would be acting as IO when needed

If most of your events are at Oulton park your face will get known and even as a trainee or track marshal your skills and experience will be recognised, as I have been looking after trainees from a very early stage in my time on the bank,

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Matthews Dad

When you have your marshals registration card from the MSA you can get your personal log in to the MSA web site with your individual marshals registration number, this will allow you to view the online version of the blue book ( MSA competitors and officials year book) which is the bible for all the rukes for all disciplines of motorsport

You no longer need to log in to download the Blue Book - see the link in my previous post!

[Sparky-steve]

you have all given me alot to think about, and your right in what your saying..
might just leave upgrade until 2011 season..

but it's good to know what needs doing and when.
think for me is to get my BMMC & MSA membership details.
get on the bank as often as possible,
attend the training day next yr..( looking forward to that )
and feel secure in my skills before rethinking about upgrade.

think i'm still buzzing from a great day on post last saturday.
think i felt like a real marshal for the first time.

could i also ask. errrrr how to put this ???
would it be possible for the experianced marshals let us trainees actually get stuck in? it's the only way we'll learn, you can only learn so much from watching
no offence intended on this..

[ChrisA]

Originally Posted by Sparky-steve

could i also ask. errrrr how to put this ???
would it be possible for the experianced marshals let us trainees actually get stuck in? it's the only way we'll learn, you can only learn so much from watching
no offence intended on this..

You will find that you ''will be thrown in the deep-end'' soon enough.A first timer is usually told to stay back and watch, to see how we do things. After that, you're normally put with an experienced marshal, and by his/her lead muck in.
I personally believe that the best way to learn is hands on, as many others will agree.
Good luck, and enjoy you're marshalling, I do and have done for nearly 35 years.

[Sparky-steve]

Originally Posted by ChrisA

You will find that you ''will be thrown in the deep-end'' soon enough.A first timer is usually told to stay back and watch, to see how we do things. After that, you're normally put with an experienced marshal, and by his/her lead muck in.
I personally believe that the best way to learn is hands on, as many others will agree.
Good luck, and enjoy you're marshalling, I do and have done for nearly 35 years.

I totally agree Chris, and that's what I'm hoping for and need

[HairyDJ]

Steve,

You don't say how many meetings you've been to? If they have each been at different clubs / venues, then each might have treated you with extra caution / almost first timer simply because they have no previous knowledge of you. Equally, if they have all been with the same mob, then think back and try to spot what you might have said or done to warrant the way you feel they are "holding you back"

Next meeting, try to chat with your Post Chief / IO before the start and explain that you've done "x" meetings so far, but seem to be getting treated with caution - ask them to let you know if what you are saying or doing is giving the wrong impression. Also, make yourself known to any of your locals that have posted here - names at sign-on are easy if they match your name on here, but without your help, they'll never recognise you unless they mug every Steve that they see!!

Whilst it may not help you specifically, hopefully other new folk reading the thread in the future might be able to pick up some tips and assurance to help them along the way.

Given that you are still awaiting your first training day, and seem to be frustrated by your lack of involvement track-side, I would really urge you to forget (for now) about what's needed for upgrade and just relax and get to enjoy yourself. Bear in mind that none of us know in advance what incidents will come our way each day - being ready for anything, whilst hoping it doesn't happen, takes some getting used to!

good luck, and don't give up ......

[Sparky-steve]

Originally Posted by HairyDJ

Steve,

You don't say how many meetings you've been to? If they have each been at different clubs / venues, then each might have treated you with extra caution / almost first timer simply because they have no previous knowledge of you. Equally, if they have all been with the same mob, then think back and try to spot what you might have said or done to warrant the way you feel they are "holding you back"

Next meeting, try to chat with your Post Chief / IO before the start and explain that you've done "x" meetings so far, but seem to be getting treated with caution - ask them to let you know if what you are saying or doing is giving the wrong impression. Also, make yourself known to any of your locals that have posted here - names at sign-on are easy if they match your name on here, but without your help, they'll never recognize you unless they mug every Steve that they see!!

Whilst it may not help you specifically, hopefully other new folk reading the thread in the future might be able to pick up some tips and assurance to help them along the way.

Given that you are still awaiting your first training day, and seem to be frustrated by your lack of involvement track-side, I would really urge you to forget (for now) about what's needed for upgrade and just relax and get to enjoy yourself. Bear in mind that none of us know in advance what incidents will come our way each day - being ready for anything, whilst hoping it doesn't happen, takes some getting used to!

good luck, and don't give up ......

i really do see the need for newbies to take a back seat somewhat,
safety is paramount to all track side..
and yes i will confess i am a newbie, done 7 meets now
5 post 2 flag..

I've come to the same conclusion as you suggest, just forget about upgrade and get on and learn.
i do enjoy being on the bank, and a good day is just being able to watch the races, i prefer no incidents, but if they do happen well being able to get more hands on would help, if i had the backing of a experienced marshal next to me... this did happen at Oulton Pk cascades last Saturday
hence i felt like a real marshal for the first time.. mainly due to the crew with me, and a couple of minor incidents to deal with.
also got some very very good feedback from post chief with some constructive criticisum...
i know some people don't like to be told there doing things wrong, but I'm OK with it, helps me learn and get it right next time.
and next new probans are going to have sparky Steve on them LOL

many many thanks for your insights into my question, and comments.
has been very helpful. and don't worry I'm not giving up on anything
marshaling is a new found hobby and a really great one at that

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Sparky-steve

could i also ask. errrrr how to put this ???
would it be possible for the experianced marshals let us trainees actually get stuck in? it's the only way we'll learn, you can only learn so much from watching
no offence intended on this..

Sometimes it's difficult to strike a balance between holding people back & putting them in a situation which they have neither the training nor the experience to cope with. Marshalling is a potentially dangerous pastime - the object of the exercise is to get incidents dealt with as safely & as quickly as possible. The more experienced people you are working with have (or should have!) the training, knowledge & experience to recognise the dangers & act accordingly.

Please accept that what follows is in no way intended as a comment on you personally - it's a generalisation & not intended to sound arrogant or patronising:

When a new marshal who has only done a few meetings comes on post, he/she is an unknown quantity. I will always try to have a quick chat & get an idea of what trainees have done to assess how much they have learnt & identify their training needs;
comments on your card are very important in this respect. After a few meetings you'll find yourself working with people you've worked with before & you may even start to have built up something of a reputation - good or bad! (A good reputation to have would be "the marshal who brings Jaffa Cakes for the Post Chief!")

Don't get too hung up on grading; just remember, we marshal for one reason - fun! Enjoy what you're doing & the rest will just fall into place.

[pixie2308]

Steve the training routes for upgrade and details are now in the Volunteer in Motorsport website. http://www.volunteersinmotorsport.co.uk/grading.php they are also starting to publish training dates on there for 2010 in all disciplines.
The blue book is indeed a rivetting read and is available in sections from MSA website http://www.msauk.org/site/cms/conten...p?category=404
Worth taking a look at to answer questions that you have a ponderance for midweek when away from the course and the orange brethren.... or in the wee small hours!
Hope this helps.
Cheers
L & Beaver
Good to see you at the weekend - briefly

[aland]

Originally Posted by Sparky-steve

could i also ask. errrrr how to put this ???
would it be possible for the experianced marshals let us trainees actually get stuck in? it's the only way we'll learn, you can only learn so much from watching
no offence intended on this..

good and fair point steve, i can only speak from personal experience but this is roughly how my training went

1st 2 meetings, a lot of theory from the IO and here is a brush, this is how to use it

3rd, had a day full of incidents including a fire, cars in tyres and an umpteen car legend pile up, after the bigun i was unsure about feelings etc but the guys on here were great as i was away from my club, also after i posted on here a couple of guys got in contact from the smrc to see i was okay

4th, cheif track spent time with me on post did a bit of an assessment to see how i was doing

from then on i was basically doing track work albeit only on a live track if muscle was needed, did work under a safety car at gt meeting

i was advised by the cheif track and examining observer to put in for upgrade after my 10th sig as i had dealt with everything well and i was ready. i guess it is all down to the individual

one thing i wont be doing is rushing to upgrade to experienced as even when i have the sigs i am looking at 2 full seasons on track before upgrading again

[Steven Humphrey]

Adding to Alan's comments-as a trainee I just acted as back up to the more experienced marshal(s), and only went on to a live circuit when absolutely neccessary, or when numbers were so low I had no choice. It never looks good (and is very dangerous) when too many marshals rush out to an incident, especially if one doesn't know what he/she is doing. When numbers permitted, I stayed on the bank watching the other guy's backs and learning from what they did, only going trackside to help if asked by the I/O. Most of my hands on work was either during safety car periods or helping to clear up after the race.

Training days are great as you do get a chance to tackle fires, roll cars back on to their roofs etc. I know I felt much better when faced with a potential fire after I'd had some training. (BTW you need 2 training days before you can upgrade, not 1)

Good luck & maybe see you on the bank soon
Steve

[focuszetec]

Originally Posted by arnage arnie

(BTW you need 2 training days before you can upgrade, not 1)

That is if you are going from track to experianced, to go from trainee to track it is only 1 day.

[Nighthawk]

Only one Training day Req..This will include fire Training...

[Eric Ridler]

Steve the training routes for upgrade and details are now in the Volunteer in Motorsport website. http://www.volunteersinmotorsport.co.uk/grading.php

Unfortunately 'Pixie' the VIM website is way out of date and has not changed since the inception of the new grading scheme.

For the definitive version please go to the BMMC website at ( http://www.marshals.co.uk/national/b...+Officer/7.htm ) which has the correct version of the grading structure.

This booklet is issued to all new members of BMMC on joining. If anybody wants a copy then send me a STAMPED addressed envelope, my details are on the website.

Eric Ridler
BMMC National Regalia Officer
BMMC Webmaster

[Steven Humphrey]

Originally Posted by focuszetec

That is if you are going from track to experianced, to go from trainee to track it is only 1 day.

I stand corrected

[Woolley]

Might I also suggest attending a hill climb or sprint? Due to the lack of other traffic to worry about trainees will be a little more hands-on at an incident, and in my experience, you have a greater probability of having an incident to deal with as well.