What is that all about? (SC rule)

[Knowlesy]

Today's GP has really, for me, highlighted some major shortcomings with the safety car/pitlane rules and system.

I find it stupid that in a safety car situation, if two of your cars are running, one of them will be disadvantaged either by having to queue in the pits behind his teammate or by having to go a lap extra and wait, inexplicably, at the end of the pitlane after his stop. It just seems ludicrous.

I just think it would be better if each car had its own pitbox and crew so that two team cars could pit simultaneously without any sort of compromise. This is probably a ridiculous suggestion as I guess the pitlane has no room for this kind of luxury and besides, we don't have te safety cars that often anyways. But still, it's outrageous that this kind of thing can interfere with the GP in such dramatic fashion!

And why the hell do you have to wait at the end of the pitlane if you pit under safety car conditions? I'm sorry, but there is no reason for that at all!

Can anything be done to minimise the damage of a safety car?

I guess, on the plus side, it does benefit the excitement of the race a bit at times and I guess, also, that I am overly upset because one of my favourite drivers fell foul of this today. But on the other hand, another of my favourites benefitted from it, so I'm not starting this thread from 100% blind rage!

Am I the only one that thinks it's all a bit silly?

*yes, probably Knowlesy!*

[John Turner]

Yes, probably Knowlesy!

[Kicking-back]

Nothing stopping a team from bringing both cars in and queueing them.

There's not enough space on the pits for a pit box each.

[Knowlesy]

But that's it.......even when you queue them, someone will still lose out!

It's just thick really!

[2112]

Each driver having it`s own pit is a novel idea!

Well anyway, it makes certain dumb luck or a bad call by the team does not ruin a good drive.

[John Turner]

Seriously Knowlesy, I do think there is a genuinely good safety reason for the red light in these circumstances, as I've just said on one of the other threads!

[Knowlesy]

As far as I can see, there was no immediately obvious danger when JPM came out of the pits and bustled ahead of DC.

At worst, a light collision could ensue. I don't envisage anything worse than that!

[Bleu]

Originally Posted by knowlesy

As far as I can see, there was no immediately obvious danger when JPM came out of the pits and bustled ahead of DC.

At worst, a light collision could ensue. I don't envisage anything worse than that!

Well, but imagine that there had been driver on the same lap as JPM instead of DC (who was lap down). Then two drivers could have started fighting for position there and cause troubles.

[Peter Mallett]

Rules are rules mate.

My last race suffered a safety car period and to make it worse the two cars I wanted to pass got ahead of a backmarker before I did. said backmarker then decided to run at his own speed rather than catch up with the pack. Not fun but those are the rules and we (they) race by them.

JPM was wrong to come out of the pits at that time and then overtake a car. Would you be complaining if the marshals were clearing the debris at the pit exit? I think not.

[Knowlesy]

I find that unlikely bleu, I think they'd settle into position and wait for a call to let the guy past or to go past or whatever.

Peter, the debris/marshals at the end of the pitlane is a good point. But, the thing is, there was none of that. The red light could be used in a situation such as you have brought up. But for it to be on when there is a stranded car a few hundred yards behind is overkill!

[Gt_R]

I think a collision is exactly one of the things that the red light is supposed to prevent.

What's the point of safety car, only to allow chance for another multiple car pile-up? And you could see how JPM was jostling for position with the Red Bull.

The rules may disadvantage some drivers, but it's there for a good reason. I do think it's wierd that a driver with say a 30sec gap loses it due to "Safety Car" period, and risk losing the race. It benefitted MS this race, and it had almost cost him in another...i believe it's just tough luck for that driver in the situation.

[Oaksnaf]

I would really hate to see people plowing through Monaco pits during SC and trying to filter back in with the pack. The rule is reasonable and it was Monty who made the mistake. He also mis-interpreted the call to come in, so they would have qued Kimi in behind him anyway.

[Knowlesy]

You're probably all largely right and I accept some of the reasons.

I still think there are some aspects that could be changed and that are needless, but I admit I am still bitter and raging after the craziness of what happened earlier and I'll just shutup for a while!

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Oaksnaf

it was Monty who made the mistake. He also mis-interpreted the call to come in, so they would have qued Kimi in behind him anyway.

Where did that come from?

[Oaksnaf]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Where did that come from?

I probably didn't explain myself enough-it was Monty who made the mistake in regards to the red light. If he had of come into the pits, they would have qued Kimi, without a doubt. As he had already been given the signal to come in.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Oaksnaf

If he had of come into the pits, they would have qued Kimi, without a doubt. As he had already been given the signal to come in.

Thanks I didn't realise that.

[ascarmarshal]

I haven't seen the incident with Montoya but if he over took under yellow then it was right to exclude him. Yellow mean SLOW DOWN and NO OVERTAKING

[mjolnir]

I think the rule pretty much speaks for itself - you heard the confusion (at least those with ITV commentary) between both commentators as to whether Monty should be in front of Coulthard. If a car were made to wait till the pack passes and rejoins at the back of the queue, there'd be no such confusion. It makes sense...

That said... why was Ralf leading the pack behind the safety car? Shouldn't it pick up the leader and wave Ralf through (or am I thinking of American racing?)?

[Alex Hodgkinson]

Originally Posted by mjolnir

why was Ralf leading the pack behind the safety car? Shouldn't it pick up the leader and wave Ralf through (or am I thinking of American racing?)?

That confused me too, I always thought that the leader was supposed to be the first one behind the safety car...

Also, did anyone notice how kimi didn't pass ralf for nearly a full lap after the safety car pulled in? Surely that should of constituted as passing more than 3 blue flags..

[Asp]

Originally Posted by Alex Hodgkinson

That confused me too, I always thought that the leader was supposed to be the first one behind the safety car...

The SC picked up JPM as the leader, but of course he then pitted...
In such circumstances the train has been formed, so sending a car round to the back of the train would waste time waiting for it get there and be unsafe having a slow train and car chasing round for the marshals working trackside. Also, it would have given Ralf an unfair advantage as he has just been lapped, he would have effectively have gained a lap if he'd been let by.

[BootsOntheSide]

Thanks for clearly that one up there Asp. The situation doens't seem entirely fair, as the guy who was closest to being lapped before the safety car came out gained almost an entire lap, and without the safety car JPmw ould soon have pitted and thus let Ralf unlap himself that way.

Going to the back of the line in that situation seems pretty harsh to me, especialyl as there's no space for each team to have two pit bays. US racing really gets ahead of F1 when it comes to common sense here. Contact at that speed would have been harmless, and DC had no reason to defend that position, as he was a lap down.

[eatapc]

Originally Posted by ascarmarshal

I haven't seen the incident with Montoya but if he over took under yellow then it was right to exclude him. Yellow mean SLOW DOWN and NO OVERTAKING

It looked like Montoya crossed the line at the exit simultaneously with DC. Too close to call. Montoya probably felt he was slotting into the queue where he belonged; if wrong, he could have been radioed to give up the one position.

The rule is dumb. There is no danger blending back into the queue at low speed behind the SC, but there is a danger of an engine overheating and later detonating if a car has to wait 20 or 30 seconds at the pit lane exit after it has just sat for 10 or 15 seconds while refueling.

[Logrence]

I watched that part of the race on slow motion - DC was across the white line well before Montoya.

Squeezing DC offline was naughty.

[Logrence]

Originally Posted by knowlesy

I just think it would be better if each car had its own pitbox and crew so that two team cars could pit simultaneously without any sort of compromise.

They're trying to cut costs and you've just doubled the race personnel!

[Alex Hodgkinson]

The rule is dumb. There is no danger blending back into the queue at low speed behind the SC, but there is a danger of an engine overheating and later detonating if a car has to wait 20 or 30 seconds at the pit lane exit after it has just sat for 10 or 15 seconds while refueling.

Actually there is plenty of danger, as almost demonstrated by Montoya.

Driver comes steaming out of the pit lane on cold(er) tyres hoping to get as far up the train of cars as possible. Driver could easily loose control (monty got it sideways) and block the road or take out marshalls which may be working in that very area..