Quick question?

N I Tram · 19 Dec 2006, 14:02 (Ref:1794689)

Which riders have won in both WSBK and 500cc/MotoGP?

Dani Filth · 19 Dec 2006, 17:10 (Ref:1794894)

races or Championships ??
only the big class ?

chunder · 19 Dec 2006, 17:39 (Ref:1794918)

It depends on if youa re including races liek the Suzuka 8 hour!

If youa re then there are hundreds!!

But I reckon the list is summat like this for riders who have won WSBK races and GP's

Mick Doohan
Kevin Magee
Alex Barros
Troy Bayliss
Regis Laconi
Garry McCoy
Pier Francesco Chili
Not sure about Schwantz if he entered any WSBK races, dont think so
John Kocinski
Marco Lucchinelli in the early days of the 851 Ducati

Thats about it I reckon

Dani Filth · 19 Dec 2006, 19:39 (Ref:1795034)

you forgot Simon Crafar

LE
come to think about it .. did Crafar win in WBSK ??

ASCII Man · 19 Dec 2006, 23:22 (Ref:1795281)

The highest Crafar got in WSBK was 2nd place, several times iirc.

Hazza · 20 Dec 2006, 06:46 (Ref:1795441)

Some quantification:

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunder

Mick Doohan won against a sub par "early years" WSBK according to the chaps on this board.
Kevin Magee - fair enough.
Alex Barros - one of the few to do it in modern times
Troy Bayliss - ditto
Regis Laconi - ditto, only his GP was down to circumstance
Garry McCoy - ditto, but his WSBK race was down to circumstance, but he ran at the front of the WSBK field a few times.
Pier Francesco Chili - you call that a win? for the history books maybe.
John Kocinski - Yup.
Marco Lucchinelli in the early days of the 851 Ducati - Pass

So, really out of all thoose riders to have been front running competitors in both World Superbike and World Grand Prix, its really only Barros, Bayliss, Kosinscki and Lucchinelli (maybe, dunno

)

McCoy only had 1 season on a half decent bike to show himself, and Magee only ever did well at home, or at sugo for some reason.

Hazza · 20 Dec 2006, 06:54 (Ref:1795445)

Also, checking results, Doohan happened to be the fastest of the Australians at Oran park, so that says something about either the WSBK field or Australian 2-Wheeled racing in the 80s

bestfit · 20 Dec 2006, 09:19 (Ref:1795534)

Quote:

Magee only ever did well at home, or at sugo for some reason.

That's because he only ever race WSBK at home and at Sugo

7 races - 7 podiums (2 wins, 4 x 2nd, 1 x 3rd) Not a bad record.

Quote:

Also, checking results, Doohan happened to be the fastest of the Australians at Oran park, so that says something about either the WSBK field or Australian 2-Wheeled racing in the 80s

The 2 races Doohan won at Oran Park in 1988 were 2 of the most dominating rides I have ever witnessed in any form of bike racing. In both races he won by about 30 seconds and lapped everyone up to about 4th place.

Although on balance it has to be said that all the international riders were severely spooked by the safety standards at OP at the time especially the close proximity of concrete walls. Something they were not used to on the european circuits. Fred Merkel was the only international rider to give the aussies any sort of competition on the day, with a 4th and 3rd in the two races.

And yes aussie superbikes were extremely strong in the 80's with fully works factory teams for Honda, Yamaha and Kawasaki. They were the hay days of Australian bike racing

Ahhh the memories

chunder · 20 Dec 2006, 11:40 (Ref:1795660)

Well I just got the results, wasnt gonna rate each one.

For me its a shock that Edwards never won a GP, and Fogarty, he should clearly have been given a chance!

Doug POlen proved himself many times, as did Haga, Corser etc.

But weirdest one has to be Crafar, I was at that race and he utterly annhialated every single rider that day, was pulling a sec a lap on Mick!! Was totally surreal and possibly one of the biggest upsets in GP racing coz there was no bad weather, noe freak occurence, he just blew them all away.
Iy has to be said though that he was on a great bike and maybe the fruits of McCoys success in later years on that team were being laid with Crafar coz I think WCM were more than prepared to not do things the way Yamaha wanted them too!

BootsOntheSide · 20 Dec 2006, 14:15 (Ref:1795793)

I've noticed that the Wikipedia page on Chili has no information about his 500cc days, so I don't know what happened for his 'win'. I don't know much about Doug Polen, only that he won WSBK titles in the early years, which definitely weren't as strong as say 1995-2002. 1995 had Corser, Edwards, Nagai (perhaps the ultimate lost champion) and Chili all fulltime for the first time.

chunder · 20 Dec 2006, 15:58 (Ref:1795940)

Yes I agree, Nagai was awesome, saw him at Donington, was a great rider.

As for Polen well he kinda raced mainly in teh US for Yosh in the eighties then saw the writing on the wall for fours and joined Ducati. He won EVERYTHING for two years and was dominant ona scale even Foggy would struggle to match but he would ONLY ride on Dunlops, to the point where when he signed for Honda in 94 to race the new RC45, the team were forced to use Dunnies and were rather embarrasses by Crafar on the Rumi bike on Michelin I think.

He disappeared then into Endurance racing wher he was a world champion, was a brilliant rider on his day, totally dominated the racing in 91 and 92 really

About Chili he ran HB hondas in the eighties for Gallina, and then ran a Honda that Foggy rode for a bit in 91, not sure about the win think it was a wet race maybe

Dani Filth · 20 Dec 2006, 16:40 (Ref:1795979)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunder

But weirdest one has to be Crafar, I was at that race and he utterly annhialated every single rider that day, was pulling a sec a lap on Mick!! Was totally surreal and possibly one of the biggest upsets in GP racing coz there was no bad weather, noe freak occurence, he just blew them all away.
Iy has to be said though that he was on a great bike and maybe the fruits of McCoys success in later years on that team were being laid with Crafar coz I think WCM were more than prepared to not do things the way Yamaha wanted them too!

wasn't he riding on a Dunlop Yamaha ?? it was like Tamada on the Bridgestone Honda a couple of years ago .. dominating on some Bridgestone favored tracks like Motegi or Rio .. but give him the same tyre as everyone else and ..............
Valencia i seem to remember was another good circuit for them .. Laconi winning there too

Dani Filth · 20 Dec 2006, 16:46 (Ref:1795990)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunder

About Chili he ran HB hondas in the eighties for Gallina, and then ran a Honda that Foggy rode for a bit in 91, not sure about the win think it was a wet race maybe

i think it was a wet race .. i seem to remember that it was mentioned by the Eurosport crew .. some riders wanted the race to be stopped but the officials kept it running and Chili was there

chunder · 20 Dec 2006, 20:39 (Ref:1796190)

Crafar was not really like Tamada to be honest, what happened was that he was a very front end rider and Dunlop got him a good tyre, he got pole at Assen and nearly bit Mick, then won at Donington and was going real well at Sachsenring until he lost teh.....front. And that was Crafar, after that he lost his confidence and the team went to Michelin in 99, he lasted about 6 races before he got sacked!

Valencia was pure tyres likie Lawson in 92, Regic was only man on a cut slick or something, nowt to do with track

Hazza · 21 Dec 2006, 01:05 (Ref:1796332)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

I've noticed that the Wikipedia page on Chili has no information about his 500cc days, so I don't know what happened for his 'win'. I don't know much about Doug Polen, only that he won WSBK titles in the early years, which definitely weren't as strong as say 1995-2002. 1995 had Corser, Edwards, Nagai (perhaps the ultimate lost champion) and Chili all fulltime for the first time.

Ol' Frankie was on a semi factory HB Honda, IIRC. So he'd tool around the mid to front of the field falling off and stuff never really challenging the top guys of the time. But they got to Misano, where everything was Hunky Dory up untill it rained on race day. Schwantz, Doohan, Rainey, Lawson, Gardener, Mamola et al ALL agreed that it was too dangerous to race on the surface, but Chilli claimed that "If you turn up to race, then you race" (There was also discussion that he was under pressure from his Italian sponsers).

So the field of 7 privateers and Chilli on his semi works bike sets of, and Chilli laps the remainder of the field and wins the race.

marcus · 30 Dec 2006, 00:59 (Ref:1801577)

yeah I remember that race , there was one bloke who took off at great pace like a rabbit only to dump it in front of the field at turn 1.....game over

(no idea who he was though ??)

**gomick** · 30 Dec 2006, 05:27 (Ref:1801626)

frankie's only gp (big class) was in 88 i think at misano - wet race, all the big riders didnt race....
crafar's gp win at donington was due to his different tyres - dunlops, cold weather i think....

long time ago though people, memory is strained

i dont think anyone has really excelled in both classes as riders have never really spent enough time in both classes - lets hope chris vermuelen is the man....

Hazza · 1 Jan 2007, 06:55 (Ref:1802646)

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcus

yeah I remember that race , there was one bloke who took off at great pace like a rabbit only to dump it in front of the field at turn 1.....game over

(no idea who he was though ??)

He was, (according to the review Vhs) on slick tyres

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Quick Question	ralf fan	Formula One	16	16 Jul 2003 16:09
Quick Question	Larsen	Touring Car Racing	8	28 Nov 2001 15:22
Quick Question 2	Invincible	Motorsport History	4	25 Oct 2001 21:59
A quick question	Minardi fan	Formula One	12	20 May 2000 17:51