question for KK

[norman-normal]

Why not move Champ Car to California?

Advantage: Less travel, many, many more Fans, won't be playing 'second fiddle', an area with for more technology available and what ever becomes popular in California, soon becomes popular throughout the world, last but not least California loves Champ Car.

What does Indy offer?

Long beach is close to Cosworth in Downy

[mountainstar]

Probably the reason for staying in indy is central location and a pool of employees or potential employees.

[KC]

Indy offers the infrastructure that California does not. All the race component importers are located in Indy, the talent pool is located in Indy, and they have a built in track that only hosts a few events a year at hand.

[norman-normal]

Race component importers are in Indy, that is correct, but they import most of it from California.

KC you need to review a little history: California was the hot bed of the air craft industry in the '20s that spawned the hot rod industry that has been thriving ever sense. In the '30s, '40s and '50s virtually all Indy cars were designed and built in California. Much of race car (including F1) electronic if developed in Calif.

California is one of the most technologically advanced areas in the world and may have the highest concentration of technology of any area in the world.

[racerkeke]

And the Atlantics are built near California Speedway, I understand.
keke

[Tony Clifton]

You ever do business in California? Workers comp can KILL a business, taxes, real estate cost are some of the highest in the nation.
Traffic is a nightmare.

Moving to California is not a good option.

[norman-normal]

Originally Posted by Tony Clifton

You ever do business in California? Workers comp can KILL a business, taxes, real estate cost are some of the highest in the nation.
Traffic is a nightmare.

Moving to California is not a good option.

We hear that all the time, mostly from outsiders, and there is an element of truth in what you say. But, Tony, if what you say is the only consideration it would be difficult to explain why California has an economy larger then that France, the economy can't grow if we are just doing each other's laundry. Also tony, real estate prices reflect the desirability of the location. I don't think Keven would want to set up shop in Beverly Hills.

In Cal it's difficult to find anyone over age 30 who was born here, so I assume that they know what the outside world is like, and yet, they chose to live here, 30+ million them.

[Tony Clifton]

Originally Posted by norman-normal

We hear that all the time, mostly from outsiders, and there is an element of truth in what you say. But, Tony, if what you say is the only consideration it would be difficult to explain why California has an economy larger then that France, the economy can't grow if we are just doing each other's laundry. Also tony, real estate prices reflect the desirability of the location. I don't think Keven would want to set up shop in Beverly Hills.

In Cal it's difficult to find anyone over age 30 who was born here, so I assume that they know what the outside world is like, and yet, they chose to live here, 30+ million them.

Yes, California has a huge population and a large economy.
Yet in your own words hardly anybody over the age of 30 is a native born California.
Why is that?
Because anybody who was native born in California who finally graduates school cannot afford to live there!

Taxes and real estate are HUGE costs.

Moving Champ Car to California will solve absolutely nothing yet raise the costs of business dramatically.

[norman-normal]

Originally Posted by Tony Clifton

Yes, California has a huge population and a large economy.
Yet in your own words hardly anybody over the age of 30 is a native born California.
Why is that?
Because anybody who was native born in California who finally graduates school cannot afford to live there!

Taxes and real estate are HUGE costs.

Moving Champ Car to California will solve absolutely nothing yet raise the costs of business dramatically.

OH my golly! soon I'll be all alone.

[chemhead1]

I'd just like to say that I miss open wheel racing at Fontana. It's a real shame.

[norman-normal]

Tony, we in California pay some of the lowest property taxes in the nation, we pay no sales tax on groceries, an auto repair bill is taxed only for parts, not labor, in fact labor is never taxed.
We do however, have high housing cost in Beverly hills, and La Jolla, if you chose to live like a movie star. We also have low housing cost in places that don't get much publisity, its a very big state.

I know that you didn't get your information from any recognized authority and I suspect you are quite young so I would caution you to take what your friends say with a grain of salt.

[Tony Clifton]

Originally Posted by norman-normal

Tony, we in California pay some of the lowest property taxes in the nation, we pay no sales tax on groceries, an auto repair bill is taxed only for parts, not labor, in fact labor is never taxed.
We do however, have high housing cost in Beverly hills, and La Jolla, if you chose to live like a movie star. We also have low housing cost in places that don't get much publisity, its a very big state.

I know that you didn't get your information from any recognized authority and I suspect you are quite young so I would caution you to take what your friends say with a grain of salt.

Look norman, not to flame you, however, if you think California is a low cost state to do business in compared with Indiana, and many other states such as Arizona or Nevada you are out of your mind.

Property taxes may be low and you might not pay sales tax on labor or groceries and there might be housing available out in the boondocks where businesses WILL NOT locate to where your employees would not spend 45% or more of their gross pay.

But if you look at where a business such as Champ Car could relocate to in order to conduct business, California real estate price are plain and simple, unaffordable.

If you want me to post some real estate web site for say Riverside, Ontario, San Diego, Imperial, Orange, Los Angeles, San Bernardino or Ventura counties I will be more than happy.

California has a very high if not the highest workman's compensation rates in the nation. The bureaucracy to any type of construction is burdensome to down right hostile.
If you wish to get nit picky California has high fuel prices compared to the rest of the nation and the electrical rates are high also.

I would also guess that if one of my friends happens to own a grocery store chain in one of your neighboring states and a couple of their stores that they acquired is located in California and they want to divest themselves of those California stores due to the burdensome labor laws and high costs of business. I would say that is a pretty reliable source of information regarding the desirability of doing business in California.

Nice pitch for California though, enjoy living there.

[norman-normal]

Can you back up anything?

[Tony Clifton]

Originally Posted by norman-normal

Can you back up anything?

http://www.househunt.com/r-riverm.htm
http://www.househunt.com/b-la-cty.htm

Here are just two examples for Riverside and LA county.
Take a Look at Lake Elsinore (in Riverside County, not exactly a "glamour spot" to live in), a BEAUTIFUL 924 square foot home for the bargain, bargain price of $299,000.

As for workmans comp. and electrical and gas rates and the rest of my post, go look yourself if you wish to remain that delusional. Google is your friend.
Go google cost of living rank by state, and see where California rates:

http://ded.mo.gov/researchandplannin...ving/index.stm

Electricity:

http://www.neo.ne.gov/statshtml/115.htm

Gasoline:

http://www.ppinys.org/reports/jtf/gastax.htm


Oh in comparison take a look at Speedway, Indiana.

http://www.homes.com/Real_Estate/IN/City/SPEEDWAY
2500 square foot house for $169,900.

Happy now?

[norman-normal]

Tony, think about things a bit.

[KC]

Norman-normal, you are right to some degree about California being the center of the aviation industry, but you could say the same thing about Tulsa, OK. Tulsa is a strong aviation manufacturing city as well, we build space shuttle parts, complete military and civilian flight simulators and maintenace and repair components for just about every brand of aircraft in the world. We also are the home of John Zink and his famous Indy cars, sprints, sports cars, and world class dragsters. At one time Bakersfield CA and Tulsa were the only two dragstrips that held sanctioned events pretty much as they are held today.

I can get anything under the sun manufactured in the city. From industry leading fiber optic communications (all the major players have corporate offices here), anything at all to do with building and operating and laying pipelines and welding equipment (all the major players have offices here), F16 fighter plane wings and fuselage components in exotic fiber layups and every kind of exotic alloys, computer chips and board assemblies, etc.

All that being true, I would still not move CART away from its traditional home in Indy. There is no profit to made doing so. Most of the teams would not move their operations, its too expensive and sets them beehind the curve in getting ready for the next season. CART's problems are not because they are in Indy, its due to incompetency in the management, plain and simple.

[racerkeke]

Originally Posted by Tony Clifton

Here are just two examples for Riverside and LA county.
Take a Look at Lake Elsinore (in Riverside County, not exactly a "glamour spot" to live in), a BEAUTIFUL 924 square foot home for the bargain, bargain price of $299,000.

Who gives a hoot about residential prices? Most companies don't. They care about commercial tax rates and commercial lease or purchase rates.

And let's face it, I live in greater Vancouver BC and $299K for a house that big sounds just ducky, thanks. You'd have to go to the depths of the burbs to find that price here, and you might share it with the local ladies of the night and a number of heroin addicts.

So Speedway costs less to live in. Does KK care? Does Steve Johnson care? Nope. Can they get reasonably priced workers who already live there with reasonable literacy/numeracy and a thirst to not have to take the 10 for an hour into work everyday? You betcha.

Not a bad idea, really.
keke

[racerkeke]

[QUOTE=KC
All that being true, I would still not move CART away from its traditional home in Indy.
[/QUOTE]

Except it's not its traditional home. Maybe you weren't aware that until 2001 CART's headquarters were just outside Detroit? Two different locations, but same area between 1979 and 2001.

keke

[KC]

Indy is the traditional home of openwheel racing, whether CART's offices are in Detroit or not, most of the teams are based in Indy and I doubt they would move if given the opportunity and it would make sense to keep the management of the series close to where the teams are.

[Leighton Irwin]

If, and that is a very big if, the place to move to would be the 'other' center of motor racing in the US. Penske has moved all his operations there. There are hundreds of teams there and many many specialty shops and literally thousands of motor racing crew men and fabricators. Enemy country -- Charlotte.

[norman-normal]

Southern Cal is currently the home of two out of three of Champ Cars Manufacturing facilities. BTW the temp here is mostly in the 70'sF all year, the Pacific ocean provides moderate temps free.

Oh, did I mention, we have nice weather.

[Tony Clifton]

Originally Posted by norman-normal

Southern Cal is currently the home of two out of three of Champ Cars Manufacturing facilities. BTW the temp here is mostly in the 70'sF all year, the Pacific ocean provides moderate temps free.

Oh, did I mention, we have nice weather.

Can you back that up?

[norman-normal]

Tony for a person who professes to be so knowledgeable all things Champ Car and California, you really surprise me.

Formula Atlantic is built about 20mi north of where I live (Oceanside) and about 20mi north of that is the Cosworth plant where they do CC engines; it is near the Toyota TRD plant where Toyota designs and builds most of Toyota's racing equipment. These plants are small by our standards but there are literally hundreds of them and I'm sure they would be a big deal in Indy.

[norman-normal]

OH, where you talking about the weather? we are rated as having one of the three best climates in the world, unlike Indy(one of the worst).
Because I own my home; my total housing expense is about what your paying for A/C and heat

[Tony Clifton]

Originally Posted by norman-normal

OH, where you talking about the weather? we are rated as having one of the three best climates in the world, unlike Indy(one of the worst).
Because I own my home; my total housing expense is about what your paying for A/C and heat

You better think about things there a bit norman.