Championship fee's v race entry cost

[DaveW]

There are frequent discussions around both entry fee's and sizes of grids and what, if anything, can be done.

I have often wondered if it would make more sense to place a high figure on the championship registration and then either significantly reduce, or even scrap, the race entry fee. I know that it does happen currently, FPA being an example, but why don't more organisers consider it. One of the problems that seems to arise currently is that a championship/series might have say 70 registered competitors but then struggle to get 15 cars to a given race weekend.

In order to know a championship/series is viable there would need to be a cutoff date for registration, so that the organising club/body know they have sufficient entries. There could be a second date so that people who are not ready can join at the half way point but this would only come into force if (and only if!) the first championship/series had sufficient lodged entries at the start.

Whilst this will obviously mean finding larger sum at the start of the season, you can then start saving towards the following season. And whilst no-one sets out to build an unreliable car, if you've already made the outlay perhaps you'll settle for being a tenth slower but knowing you will finish and make the next race! It would potentially be more attractive to sponsors as who really wants to have their name associated with a ten car procession!

The organisers know their costs at the start of the year so it shouldn't be difficult to work out a figure based on, for example, a minimum of 20 competitors. Once over that then the additional revenue generated would be divided by the number of competitors and refunded at the end of the year. For those who joined at the half way point they would receive a half share.

I don't pretend this is THE solution to small grids and high entry fees but is an idea I feel has merit and it would be interesting to hear from those who race far more regularly than I manage!

[nyssa7]

With the best of intentions I start each season planning to do all the rounds, sometimes that translates into those I can afford, which your idea MAY help with

BUT... I missed far too many races over the past two years repairing mechanical failure, so paying a lump sum up front would increase my effective entry fees. Sadly I don't have touring car facilities which would have the car up and running again no matter what

[greenamex2]

Given that the high 'registration fee' for certain championships has put me off entering this wouldn't work for me.

I think the lower club level competitors work very much on a "Pay As You Go" model. A bit like most businesses.

It could certainly work for those championships targetting the more affluent competitor though.

[Ian Sowman]

There is probably some merit in a hybrid of some kind coupled with an ability to pay by direct debit to smooth the cash flow. Unfortunately, this depends on the organisers being able to smooth their cash flow as well!

[DaveW]

I think the biggest problem for organisers is that circuit hire normally has to be paid somewhat in advance of all the entry fees being received so that at the start of a season cash flow doesn't look so good. It might be OK when you know your race always has plenty of entries but it must be very frustrating for those coordinators (along with the meeting organisers) who only see 1/3 of their registered competitors actually turn up for a race!

Denis - what level do you think would be acceptable for the average club racer to register? If it was for example set at £ 500 but then you received a £ 50 deduction on the race entry fee, based on 10 rounds. If someone enters part way through the season the registration fee doesn't change but you still only get £ 50 off per race that way you are rewarding those who commit early and are more likely to do all rounds.

[greenamex2]

Originally Posted by DaveW

Denis - what level do you think would be acceptable for the average club racer to register? If it was for example set at £ 500 but then you received a £ 50 deduction on the race entry fee, based on 10 rounds. If someone enters part way through the season the registration fee doesn't change but you still only get £ 50 off per race that way you are rewarding those who commit early and are more likely to do all rounds.

As my current registration fee is ZERO then if I missed a race I would be out of pocket, and, at best, if I did all rounds I would be losing the interest on £500.

Why would I want to do it?

Now if the £500 included my BARC and CTCRC membership (total about £200) then it suddenly makes a lot of sense. However I doubt if these clubs could afford to 'lose' their membership fee.

Being a "cup is not even half full because it got knocked over" kind of guy my main concern is that you'll get a genuine discount for a short time and then prices will just increase to compensate. A bit like "Protected No Claims Bonus" where they just stick up the basic premium to compensate after an accident.

[phansa88]

The dt&rc has it going for me reasonable priced apart for the BARC headquater run rounds. race when i want and if you do them all i understand
you get a bit of a rebait/ discount and the number of people entering is increasing . one question more people involed in the sport bigger grids less you all would have to pay ? so if we all pulled someone else into the sport
we would start to see arise in numbers and maybe get some boy races of the street

[phansa88]

Its not so much the cost its getting more young people involed or take it to then say have display day on show out side super markets etc with discount
entries to come and watch

[ss_collins]

agree with that, but perhaps clubs could look at heavily discounted entry fees and waiving champ reg fees for first timers.

[Rod Birley]

A bit like DT&R run by BARC south east. You can belong to any MSA recognised motor club and the registration fee is only £15 which effectively covers our quaterly magazine "Brief Torque"

[ss_collins]

does the BARC SE reduce entry fees for new starters though? It does prove that it can be done and its no suprise that the CCC TRC DTRC tin tops big snorty things series is so well supported

[Mike Holmes]

I know that some clubs are "selling" races to championships based on a percentage of the total cost of the meeting for next season. Your entry fee will therefore be based on the number taking part in your race. Sign of the times I am afraid when costs are going up all round.

[MGDavid]

[QUOTE=Denis - what level do you think would be acceptable for the average club racer to register? If it was for example set at £ 500 but then you received a £ 50 deduction on the race entry fee, based on 10 rounds. ......[/QUOTE]

DW, the way I read the first post was that Registration could be £2400 representing 12 races at 200 each, all paid up front. It has merit, this is the way FISC runs, except we do 3 races over a weekend, on 4 weekends from say May to October, giving longer periods in between for prep and repairs.

[barry barnes]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

DW, the way I read the first post was that Registration could be £2400 representing 12 races at 200 each, all paid up front. It has merit, this is the way FISC runs, except we do 3 races over a weekend, on 4 weekends from say May to October, giving longer periods in between for prep and repairs.

For CLUB RACER read BROKE ! finding a lump of money up front for most of us would be a non starter - I have done this with the Power Tour when I contested the National Saloons, it cost 3 1/2 K to register but over the twelve rounds if you started them all you got ALL your money back.(it also included BTCC events as well)

That was a reasonable risk considering the high profile events, nowadays I personally can only do pay as I go - no more big salary to support my habit but at least I still have a roof over my head unlike some !

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by barry barnes

For CLUB RACER read BROKE ! finding a lump of money up front for most of us would be a non starter - ....etc !

Er, in case I have given the false impression I'm not broke like the rest of you, I should point out that I simply followed the novel concept of saving up before I went racing. Worse, I can't justify using the day job to pay for it, so I wheel and deal evenings and weekends in order to indulge my passion.

[barry johnson]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

Er, in case I have given the false impression I'm not broke like the rest of you, I should point out that I simply followed the novel concept of saving up before I went racing. Worse, I can't justify using the day job to pay for it, so I wheel and deal evenings and weekends in order to indulge my passion.

Well good for you, most of us do not have the oppotunity to wheel and deal and as for saving up, not something that I or a lot of racers can do. If a club asked for that sort of money up front I would now be breaking the car up and flogging the bits. I am returning after a long lay off and can only afford to do about 6 races in 07 and this with financial support from my wife, so as Barry says minted we are NOT.

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by barry johnson

....and as for saving up, not something that I or a lot of racers can do....

Try not racing for a season but simply putting to one side the money you would have spent on entry fees, bit by bit. At the end of the year you will have enough to pay for the following year, up front.

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by barry johnson

.... I would now be breaking the car up and flogging the bits....

and that's not wheeling and dealing? - you got it in 1

[barry johnson]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

and that's not wheeling and dealing? - you got it in 1

Try reading whats written not putting you interprintation on a small part of a sentance ( not an MP are you ) what I said was that I could not afford up front fees and would have to forget it. I started in 69 and last raced in 86 so time is not on my side, I've done the serious stuff ( BTCC ) so all I want now is a bit of fun with NO hassell ( Tin Tops )

[midgetman]

Actually MGD's missed the point of the FISC/Legendary Circuits series, they'll accept either method of payment. PAYG and it's a bit more per race but easier on the cashflow and no commitment, pay up front and there's a useful discount but be prepared for sh***y letters from the bank manager. Which soon eats up the saving

Perhaps that could be available with more series - then you can balance out the saving with the interest charged by Barclaycard. Called choice, a novel concept to many................

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by barry johnson

Try reading whats written not putting you interprintation on a small part of a sentance ( not an MP are you ) what I said was that I could not afford up front fees and would have to forget it. I started in 69 and last raced in 86 so time is not on my side, I've done the serious stuff ( BTCC ) so all I want now is a bit of fun with NO hassell ( Tin Tops )

no need to be so touchy - I was gently trying to point out that two things you think are not possible are exactly what has made it possible for me to enter racing. In '69 I was looking for my first job, and in '86 I was raising a young family, now I'm fulfilling a lifelong ambition, at well the wrong side of fifty at that. I guess it all depends on how strong your drivers are (pun intended) - you've been there and done it, I haven't.

[barry barnes]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

now I'm fulfilling a lifelong ambition, at well the wrong side of fifty at that. I guess it all depends on how strong your drivers are (pun intended) - you've been there and done it, I haven't.

Nots so long ago there were discussions on how to encourage the youth into the sport in the "T Car" thread but of course we should not forget to also encourage older people such as yourself (male and female and ? ) who through circumstances delayed their entry into this sport, the more the merrier !

As for taking time out for a season to save for the next is erring on the near impossible mainly due to " the goal post " invariable getting moved / clubs waiting to get circuit dates etc etc - the best you can hope is that the Championship you want to contest will still exist and the regs dont change to much.

There are many of us who have 30 years plus actively competing at all levels and you could regard us as either the lucky ones who were at least involved or the stupid ones who wasted all that money - I know for a fact I would have been a lot richer (moneytorywise)with out but most probably not so much fun !!!!!



.

[R59]

Originally Posted by barry barnes

I know for a fact I would have been a lot richer (moneytorywise)with out but most probably not so much fun !!!!!



.

I know a couple of people who are heading for their senior years, both having a 'couple of bob' more than me and you. One is in the position where he enjoys what he's got, and it shows by the width of his grin.

The other one is very careful about spending his money (he's worth between £7 and £10M, and has it invested well = an income of around 5-7K per week!), he's as tight as a ducks.... What's more, he's a miserable git to say the least.

There are no pockets in a shroud.

I think Eric Falce's signature says it all.

Now, this business of Championship Fee's vs Race Entry Costs.... I'd rather see the money from Championship sponsors rolled into subsidising the entry fees, rather than paying for flashy pots, and other shiny material. Something that the BARC-SE has done with the DTRC series. Prize money is nice, but it only benefits a tiny minority, unless you've managed to reach the point where your sponsor is already covering everyone's entry fee, a set of tyres and some jungle juice.

Then again, having a series sponsor willing and able to throw a fair sum of money at a championship is a bit of a rarity these days. They like their name on the tin, but are not too worried about what's in the tin!

Rob.

[greenamex2]

Originally Posted by racing59

Now, this business of Championship Fee's vs Race Entry Costs.... I'd rather see the money from Championship sponsors rolled into subsidising the entry fees, rather than paying for flashy pots, and other shiny material. Something that the BARC-SE has done with the DTRC series. Prize money is nice, but it only benefits a tiny minority, unless you've managed to reach the point where your sponsor is already covering everyone's entry fee, a set of tyres and some jungle juice.

Rob.

We had at least one guy leave Mod Prods just because we WEREN'T given away shiny things. You really can't win.

We also had several people leave Mod Prods BECAUSE we were sponsored by a tyre supplier, despite the really cheap tyres (including free ones) it just didn't happen to be the type of tyre that THEY wanted to run on.

[Rod Birley]

That's why we (BARC south east) do not force our drivers to run on Dunlop tyres, even though they offer a good deal. However, many have now switched over.