Timekeeper shock!

[johnw]

"Become a Timekeeper Ever wondered what the timekeepers actually do?
Interested in working at motorsport events but don't want to stand in the wind and rain? Are you computer literate and do you know your way round the operating system?"

This found on the MST site. www.mst-group.co.uk

I thought that we were all asked to invest in transponsers to reduce the need for timekeepers. Did I miss something?
John

[Adam43]

Where does it say that? I can't find it on the website.

They still need timekeepers! Perhaps one has left?
I thought the idea was to make timekeeping better!

[johnw]

So did I Adam
There's a scrolling window at the top right. It appears in there.
I haven't seen much benefit in what was a £300,000+ contribution from us all.
John

[Tim Falce]

I haven't seen much benefit in what was a £300,000+ contribution from us all

Neither have I but it will keep MST's shareholders happy

[johnw]

Sadly, I'm not amongst them.

[Adam43]

While the introduction of transponders didn't directly mean they could put the times on-line, perhaps it did indirectly (freeing people to put them up? providing part of the finance?). The MST website's results service is excellent - every race, every lap and usually up very quickly.

[Tim Falce]

Adam, Er not quite every race. I won't be able to find out how you do at Silverstone and others until Terry puts the results up 2 weeks after.

[johnw]

Adam, I agree that the results service is good.
My point was that I was encouraged to believe that we would see a financial benefit from our contribution - in the form of a reduction of entry fees delivered from the reduction in timekeeping fees.
Another 10/10 contributor is verifying this, as I might well be wrong.

[Ian Sowman]

I'm sure this has been covered on a couple of other threads, but I think the gist is that the transponder only tells the timekeepers that a car has gone past, not a SPECIFIC car. The operators are still needed to somehow punch in the number of the cars in the order in which they cross the line. The two sets of data are then merged to produce the timesheets. Or something like that. Maybe.

[johnw]

Thanks for that Ian.
If you are correct, I cannot see how the technology would decrease the number of timekeepers. Could achieve the same by someone ringing a bell every time a car crossed the line!
The transponders have unique identifiers, otherwise why would we be asked for the transponder number?

[Adam43]

Originally posted by Ian Sowman
I'm sure this has been covered on a couple of other threads, but I think the gist is that the transponder only tells the timekeepers that a car has gone past, not a SPECIFIC car. The operators are still needed to somehow punch in the number of the cars in the order in which they cross the line. The two sets of data are then merged to produce the timesheets. Or something like that. Maybe.

I think it is the other way round. The transponder tells them which car has gone past, but they rely on the beam for the accurate timing.

[johnw]

It seems that none of us here know how the things work.
I have asked, in another thread, an MSA timekeeper who works for MST, the relevant questions.
Will report back with conclusions.

[dog ring]

From experience, I can advise the transponder records both time and position accurately. Timekeepers are there for when the technology, or more often the users of technology fail ie. as a safety net.
Most of the failures seem to come when you 'pit', but low powered, badly attached, and damaged transponders are common problems I understand.
One of my drivers failed to register on an 'in' lap....the reason: he drove too slowly over the timing loop...mad huh?

[RMR]

wish they put some of the large amount of money they take out of us for transponders and put it into the **** web page they have! does this ever work.

[Adam43]

:confused: I never have a problem with the website www.mst-group.co.uk
I think it is pretty good.

[RMR]

your joking, right. when it isnt down its the slowest site. when it works and eventually get to what you want it does the job ok, if they have updated it.

[Adam43]

No, I'm not joking. All season it has taken me a matter of a moment to download my results pdf file!

Just been to it now and it is (much) slower than normal. However within a couple of minutes I'd found a random meeting I attended and
downloaded the pdf at 46.4kb/s.

[johnw]

I have found that the website is fine.
My point was that the £200 each, was sold on the benefit of reducing costs, not for a better results service.

The answer from our timekeeper colleague follows.
[QUOTEAt your next race meeting, go to timekeeping and they can explain the whole process lots of computers and systems, they are all really nice and helpful and chatty.
re above: The beam generates a time, as well as the transponder, that identifies the car as it crosses the loop and matches the times and the car number through the systems. [/QUOTE]

This accords with dog ring's answer, so again begs the question why we need human timekeepers. It seems as though for manual backup, or system failure. Not sure I even understand the need for a beam unless it' for backup.

How then was the introduction of transponders ever going to reduce costs?

[johnw]

BTW
Just tried the mst site RMR is correct, it is pretty much at standstill.