Should CCC come back

[ss_collins]

If CCC came back what form should it take - please discuss?

[Tim Falce]

What's CCC? Serious question.

[chezza]

Motorsport Magazine...wouldn't it dilute the market?

[Dan Friel]

I'm waiting for a read of "Full Throttle"...

[Chris Y]

Meh. It's gone. Over. Finished with.

[andy97]

Better to develop the new "Full Throttle" into a magazine suitable for the era rather than trying to bring back an old title. Some sort of cross between "Circuit Driver", "CCC", "Racecar Engineering" and "Motorsport News". Personally I prefer feature articles on cars, drivers and series to race reports.

It is a very crowded market but TRC is going down hill fast and has lost my subscription because of its poor writing & poor subject matter.

[Suze]

Do you not think there's enough as it is? eg TRC, Short Circuit, RCE, MN, Full Throttle, Circuit Driver etc...don't think we really need another

[BertMk2]

There's enough out there already (some may say too many). Maybe though someone could make the old CCC articles available online

[ss_collins]

that would be us I think...

could CCC come back online?

[Suze]

But why Sam?

Face it, you want engineering stuff - you've got Racecar Engineering articles on line, you want news - you've got Autosport / tenths etc, you want something specialised to your formula - most formulas have their own websites with news, information and sometimes features on there too. I don't think there's a need for something else in whatever format.

At the end of the day there is plenty of stuff out there both on paper and also online - some of it free, some of it subscriptions (eg DSC only available online) and others like RCE where you can subscribe to the whole magazine online. I really don't feel there's the need for anything else.

[GORDON STREETER]

As much as I liked CCC I don't think it would work today as everything has moved on, and most of the modern road cars dont need to be tuned as they go like s*** of a shovel straight out of the showroom. Although looking through some old copies they could bring out the classified section as it was, with Lotus Cortina's and the like for 300 quid ! Also when I was at Gatwick last week motormags were wall to wall . So many in fact that I couldn't read them all while I waited for the gate to open !

[graham bahr]

for me ccc was the mag in the 70's and 80's, it would be difficult to bring it back and pitch it correctly, as gordon says its roots were in DIY souping up of road cars which is now by and large dead unless your tuning something old. for me most of the new mags are either too shallow or too high tech im not interested in looking of pics of something fast without learning why its fast, neither do i want to read about really high tech stuff that i cant apply to my own car.

for what its worth i think PPC (practical performance car) is actually the closest thing you can buy in the old ccc spirit

[R59]

Bring back Hot Car.

Full of Angleboxes with Lotus twin cams, and twin leading shoe brakes!!!
Model T's with Daimler Hemi's, Pos-No-Traction 15" wide rear tyres and chromed Jag IRS axles

Tech tips (tuning) like using a 1/4" SU with a No.9 knitting needle..... (in response to an obviously bogus question)

That then became Fast Car, and gradually went down hill from there.

The facts are now that "Tuning" your car relates more to the size of the wheels that you can fit under ever extreme stupid ill-fitting plastic bodykits with 1.0L engines and 8" tailpipes. Not forgetting stereo equipment soooo loud and so power hungry that every time the bass drum beats, the alternator stalls.

In burberry, with your peaked cap on sideways.
Innit.

[Chris Griffin]

Originally Posted by graham bahr

...for what its worth i think PPC (practical performance car) is actually the closest thing you can buy in the old ccc spirit

I tend to agree Graham especially as Dave Walker has a regular slot in it. I found his articles to be the most interesting thing about CCC in the end.

[andybg40]

Originally Posted by Chris Griffin

I tend to agree Graham especially as Dave Walker has a regular slot in it. I found his articles to be the most interesting thing about CCC in the end.

From the engineering and car builder companies poitn of view, in the last 5 years of CCC Walker only ever talked about his own business and how great his management system was, in my view thats not really offering much to the reader. I know of a few companies that stopped advertsisng in CCC because they felt it was purely a platform for Emerald (Walker) to promote themselves. I think you have to go back a long way to find genuine technical features, but you're right, CCC did have some great articles once apon a moon.

[Chris Griffin]

Originally Posted by andybg40

...purely a platform for Emerald (Walker) to promote themselves.

Good point Andy. Something that PPC seems to have continued.

[andybg40]

Originally Posted by Chris Griffin

Good point Andy. Something that PPC seems to have continued.

Exactly Chris, but you cant blame the guy. Everyone here with their own business which is tring to sell to that readership would love to be in the same position. It's down to the editors to control the content i guess, thus far it doesn't look that way. I think that is mainly down to the fact the rest of the guys on PPC, as with the final years of CCC, cant do the techy bit themselves so he is the easy alternative.

[graham bahr]

Originally Posted by andybg40

Exactly Chris, but you cant blame the guy. Everyone here with their own business which is tring to sell to that readership would love to be in the same position. It's down to the editors to control the content i guess, thus far it doesn't look that way. I think that is mainly down to the fact the rest of the guys on PPC, as with the final years of CCC, cant do the techy bit themselves so he is the easy alternative.

cost is a big implication, if dave writes something based on what he's done in his workshop, it costs the mag very little as the mag has no outlay, anything else costs considerably more

[Chris Griffin]

Despite Dave W & Emerald's apparent "self promotion" I still find his day to day rolling road workshop stories provide a good read. I have read his Haynes guide to engine management and found it gave a great insight into it.

I followed that up with Graham Bell's Guide to 4 stroke performance tuning too. Took some understanding in places but a I recommend it to anyone with an interest in performance tuning.

[graham bahr]

i'll do a hands up here and say i've got to dave walker quite well over the years having had many many sessions on his rollers in brixton and in norfolk and often pop into his place for a cuppa and just to see whats going on but in his defence i wil also say,

he genuinely is in business because he's still interested in motors and tuning, rather than money, in real terms (taking inflation into account) the use of his facilities are cheaper than they were 7 years ago, because of improvements in software the mapping process is miles faster so where as in the old days it would be 1 car per day, he now does 2-3 cars, with a diary which is booked solid for months, he could easily charge far far more, and despite that full diary he still does his best to fit urgent mapping jobs in for circuit racers when he doesnt actually have any spaces so they make their events, so dont knock the guy too much he really is one of the good ones, and thats without rememebering emerald was truly the first DIY engine management system availiable at sensable cost and with the software thrown in for free.

without him and his partner Karl we would probably still be paying £1000's for management we dont have any software access to

[andybg40]

I'm not knocking the guy personally, i know that he tried extremely hard to bring cost effective management to the masses as it were, and did a great job. But the success was surely helped by promotion in the mag every month. I'm sure the other management companies would kill for that exposure. It was the same when he started with Emerald cams too, but as i said in my first post, i dont blame him for it we would all do the same if we were in that situation. I had a customer once that helped Emerald fix their problems they had when the management was first launched, and he commented on the value for money being good. My comments were purely based on conversations i have had with others in the tuning industry thats all, and to be fair, i guess you could argue that jealousy may be a factor.

[andybg40]

Originally Posted by graham bahr

cost is a big implication, if dave writes something based on what he's done in his workshop, it costs the mag very little as the mag has no outlay, anything else costs considerably more

I would imagine he gets paid for what he writes as would any technial features writer. But i cant comment on what he charges so you may be right there Graham.

[andybg40]

[quote=I followed that up with Graham Bell's Guide to 4 stroke performance tuning too. Took some understanding in places but a I recommend it to anyone with an interest in performance tuning.[/quote]

Thats a great book. You should also try and pick up his Forced Induction Performance Tuning book aswell. Only down side to some of these books is that they are very americanised. A couple of books i have contain great info but are very V8 based. To be fair i am a book worm and find anything along those lines interesting, pick up some useful tips for my work too being an engineer.

[graham bahr]

Originally Posted by andybg40

I would imagine he gets paid for what he writes as would any technial features writer.

yes he would, although as someone that contributed to CCC for a short while i can honestly say you dont get paid much for articals!

[Flat Out Farr]

I used to read Triple C in the 60's and 70's and it was excellent. My Minis were based on Triple C articles, as was my Imp and other rally cars (Avenger etc). they wer aimed at the grassroots competitor. I buy Racecar Engineering and RaceTech, cos I love the technical articles about chassis design etc, especially the self-build guys. I have owned 2 one-off racing cars; one is in the USA now and the other has a bike engine in it and has been used at Harewood.

Personally, PPC is Ok. but I only get it occasionally. Full Throttle has
potential. T & RC has gone downhill rapidly.