Salvage Squad

[Nordic]

Next mondays program is about this..........

Salvage Squad
[subtitles]
This week the Squad's Claire Barratt and Suggs restore the Golden Ford - renowned as the most beautiful racing car ever built.

What is it? hope they don't try and 'race it' like the F5000 a while back

[BugEyed]

More details can be found on The tuckett Brothers Website about the Model "T" Specials that they are encouraging people to build.

The "Golden Ford" was a "works" car and looked like this in 1915.

http://www.tuckettbrothers.co.uk/Mis...olden ford.jpg

I'm not sure of their plans to race it, but Model T's have been raced in the past at VSCC events and one was at the Pom last weekend.

Duncan

[Riley Imp]

Seems a bit different to the one in the photo, but sounds worth a watch. Last night our intrepid restorers dealt with a Scammel Mechanical Horse. Bit surprised at the way steering shafts were scrapped when they could have been sleeved, but I guess they have to restore in a tight time-scale. In the historical piece on the vehicle they forgot to give credit to Napier, who developed the concept and passed it to Scammel for implementation.

[rdjones]

Thanks for that Nordic, I will be tunning in.

[rdjones]

Thanks for that Nordic, I will be tunning in.

[BugEyed]

So the programme was broadcast last night. Did anyone see it?

From the details on their website it looks like the squad are taking a less hands-on approach to their restorations now - they sent out most of the work to specialists!

The result looks typically Ford:



Duncan

[ianselva]

Yes I watched it and it was quite worth watching , the motor was obviously fairly special as it had an OHV head. Rod Jolley did the bodywork in 5 weeks . So it was not quite the instant rebuild the programme used to infer , but at least the specialists made a good job.

[Aysedasi]

I saw a bit, but it didn't really captivate me, as such. Good to see my wife's mate Rod (he works very near to us) on the prog.

[eclectic]

a Gemsa head, definitely not 1911, Claire referred to a3 litre engine so was the motor from a model 'A'? Well known VSCC members 'Steve the wheel' & Rod Jolley got good publicity and a mention of Steve Cotterell the best white metaller in the business.... all good for the old car movement. Its a pity its so dumbed down but then who under 35 has ever even heard of Brooklands?

[BugEyed]

Mike

It is definately a T based engine, but presumably with a long stroke crank to increase the capacity - this is one of the mods that people use to get a bit more from the engine. As the "cousins" say, "thar ain't no substitute for cubes"!

Duncan

PS All of the students I teach have heard of Brooklands by the time I've taught them Forces!

[Riley Imp]

Worth tuning in to, I guess the dumbing down is to make it appeal to a mass audience. Claire is certainly getting the opportunity to get some vocational skills training. Who knows, she may well end up running a restoration business.
Somehow, I found the car a bit unconvincing, but maybe it's because I do not know enough about the Model T. Its a pity there was not more time devoted to the white metalling side of things, but it was interesting to see some of Rod Jolley's metalworking techniques on display. Talking to him at Stoneleigh, I would never have thought him to be the demon Cooper pilot at Goodwood !
Chris.

[Paul H]

Originally posted by eclectic
Its a pity its so dumbed down but then who under 35 has ever even heard of Brooklands?

I have!! But then I was over exposed to VSCC bulletins and 'The Automobile' magazine from a very young age...

I do agree that the programme was dumbed down, but then they do have only an hour for each show, so it isn't that surprising. I was very amused to see the way in which the body was mocked up - this is how I have been planning to sort out the body design on the family Riley (however, the workshop needs to be sorted out first ).

I thought that the earlier series tended to be rather amateur in the way things were rebuilt. E.g, IIRC, there was no mention of the fact that the Gypsy Moth engine would have needed to be reconditioned by a CAA licensed engineer, and the reported timescales tended to be a little untruthful. Whereas, IMHO, the new series successfully gets across the level of skill required to rebuild such machinery by farming out work to specialists where necessary.

[Riley Imp]

The first series seem to be dominated by the men looking more and more miserable and falling out with one another. As a survivor from that, I hope Claire can help develop the programme to give a greater insight into the skills. At least C4 is not trying to portray her as mechanical engineering's answer to Charlie Dimmock.
Thinks, must see if I can persuade them to rebuild one of my Riley lost causes.
Chris.

[Paul H]

Originally posted by Riley Imp
Thinks, must see if I can persuade them to rebuild one of my Riley lost causes.
Chris.

Ditto! I would love to see a prewar Riley being restored by them (and at their expense!! )

My father may have just the car - a wreck of a '33 Monaco that's too far gone to restore as a saloon, due to virtually non-existant ash framing, although most of the fixtures and fittings appear to be there. But would they be prepared to do a special?

My 'modern' could also do with the salvage squad treatment, especially if it's Lance at 'Romance of Rust' doing the bodywork! (But I guess that for an unrestored 37 year old, with mostly original paint it's not really that bad...)

[Riley Imp]

Trouble is Paul, there are too many of us who hang onto early saloons, just hoping that one day, we might get the time, inclination and money to restore it. The 1933 Monaco was a nice car, we have a 1931 fabric bodied model, one of the first to be built on the "Plus" chassis, fuel tank at the rear. It was registered Jan 23 1931, and is therefore PVT. It still carries its last tax disc, dated 1942, having then be stored in Dundee. It all there, but.....
On the other site, they ran a thread concerning dating stamps on components. The block in this Monaco, carries the date 24.4 30, the gearbox casing, 25.6.30. These were stamped on by Riley when the casting was released for machining. However, it is not classed as vintage, which means were I to restore it, it would not be eligible for those events. Ho Hum, Chris - back to the thread.

[Paul H]

Surely if it was registered on 23rd Jan 1931, it had to have been built before the end of the previous year, and is therefore vintage?

My father's '33 is good only for a special, and that was why it was bought. It will never be a Monaco again - when it arrived it looked like a cabriolet, and the (rear-hinged) back doors had been fixed to the 'B' pillars. This and gravity were all that held the rear body onto the chassis....

Perhaps it's too far gone even for Salvage Squad

[Riley Imp]

Paul,
You are correct in the way you assess Vintage as build date. The registration date is normally accepted as the construction date, but some flexibility is allowable if it can be shown that the car would have been built earlier. The combination of evidence from component date stamps and where the chassis No. fits in with similar models may well allow me to claim it as Vintage. Must be a contender for Salvage Squad, but they are probably more interested in rarer models. Have you joined the Riley Register yet ?
Chris.

[BugEyed]

Chris

It is these dates that matter for the VSCC - hence why 8 Litre Bentleys count as Vintage. In theory, they were all commissioned before the cut-off date. Whether this includes cutdown blocks for 5.25 Litre blowers is another matter!

Duncan

[Paul H]

Chris,

I haven't joined the Riley Register yet but probobly will do so soon. My father used to be a member but as we won't be starting work on the car for a few years yet, I guess that he won't rejoin until then. In the meantime, there is still a stack of old register bulletins for me to search through for information!

Regarding the registration date vs construction date, presumably the Historic Vehicle road tax class has set a precedent for the construction date being the legal age of the vehicle?

Paul

[Riley Imp]

Paul,
I think you must be correct, although at one time, when faced with re-issuing a log book for a vehicle which had lost its original identity, they recorded in the new V5, the approximate date for the original registration. Today, particularly when issuing unallocated numbers, they record approximate date of manufacture. Luckily for the Monaco, I have the original log book and a V5.
Make sure you come up for the Coventry Rally, there are usually plenty of spares to buy, new and second-hand. Contact me separately if you want some help.
Duncan is correct about the definition of a vintage Bentley. It has been suggested that all Bentley factory produced components were made before the end of 1930. 1931 saw them sell very little before the RR take-over. In 1935/6 RR decided to build up a number of WO models from the pile of bits they had, including original chassis. The bodywork was new, generally heavy, from a then current coach-builder. Many of these have subsequently had the body work removed and replaced with VDP style LeMans replica bodywork. One such car with a heavy crank engine and heavy duty chassis has been shortened, fitted with a blower and looks as though it left Tim Birkin's works yesterday. It is classified Vintage. Fortunately, the combination of the excellent BDC records and the thorough research in Michael Hay's books, ensures that its full history is understood. No one has tried to fake a history, whereas with more obscure cars, where there is little by way of records, this is always possible.
Chris.

[Paul H]

Chris,

I am hoping to go to the Coventry Rally this year - do you know when it is yet? Are you also on the VSCC forum? Hopefully I'll be allowed back in soon!

As for spares, thanks for the offer of help, but my father, brother and I still have to decide what sort of special we want before we start buying any more bits! I think that we probobly have most of what we need already, but haven't inspected closely enough to determine how much is reusable (sadly, our budget doesn't quite stretch to a 15/6 or an Autovia V8 ). I will definately be bringing my camera to the rally though!

There is also the issue of showing to the VSCC eligibility commitee that the wreck we will be using as the basis for the special is too far gone to be restored in its original form, before we start doing any work on it ... etc!

Paul

[exilegaas]

Originally posted by Paul H
Chris, Are you also on the VSCC forum?

[Riley Imp]

Paul,
click on here for details of Riley Register, including events.
http://www.rileyregister.com
Been in the VSCC since 1960, great club.
Not registered on Forum, EXILED, too much GAS ?

[Paul H]

:confused:

I wasn't on the VSCC forum for very long before the non-VSCC members were shown the door. Hence I have lost track of who some of the VSCC members are here, especially as some are apparently no longer posting on the VSCC forum by choice, as opposed to those who had to leave, like myself!

I shall try not to put my foot in it again (too much)!!



Cheers for the Riley Register link - I've just downloaded the membership application form

[Riley Imp]

No problem Paul, I am sure exilegaas was just having a bit of fun, as was I by way of response ! Pleased to hear you may become a Register member. There is a need for some younger enthusiasts. I feel sure you will not have a problem getting the "Monaco" accepted as ripe for conversion. The concern has been over people taking good, roadworthy saloons, tearing the body off to make a "sports model." The dilemma you have is whether you want a tourer for rallying, and perhaps trials, or whether you want a competitive racer. The only way to achieve the latter, is take tremendous levels of weight out, plus a well sorted engine of course. There are plenty of Register members who have pursued at least one of those courses, so you will not be alone.
Chris.