CCWS on Life Support and How it could benefit the ALMS

[dj4monie]

After reading this

I have come to the conclusion that one of these open wheel series will DIE. Something that I have known/believed since the court victory by George that gave his series the "Indy Car" name plate permanently separating the Champ Car series from the hollowed ties to the 500.

With the cancellation of the Phx race, the Mexico race in doubt, moving back to track that had shrinking attendance (Laguna) and many other issues highlighted in that story, you get the distinct feeling the Rev is about to appear to read the series its last rights...

As much as I loved CART in its heyday its delayed its own impending doom when it decided it wanted to butt heads with Tony George.

How does this benefit ALMS you ask?

Well according to Da Bear, CDW is about to do something with or without Justin Wilson. Is this finally the series SPONSOR that we have been begging for?

Forsythe has taken on a paid driver and you know when one of the series biggest backers is tired of writing the big checks to be competitive along with traveling to Europe for races and all the cost it entails; you know the series is in trouble.

Dropping a driver that's 6th in points seems a bit crazy to me...

So let's say CCWS bids a fond farewell, I don't believe that will suddenly increase the IRL fields, at least not in dramatic fashion. IRL is still largely ignored by the racing public and Honda at any time could pull the plug on supplying engines...

In other words IRL has its own set of problems...

If CDW does jump ship and becomes the series sponsor, does that mean even with a rules package that is about to see wholesale changes soon, that the ALMS is finally ready for "prime time"?

I believe it is, we do well in large markets attendance-wise and that is always important for a promoter.

Which teams do you believe are likely to jump to the ALMS or IRL or even parish the thought, NASCAR?

Out of all of them, I believe Newman/Haas/Lanigan will make the jump to Cup as Carl Haas isn't a big fan of spending his own money, which unless he finds a suitable technical partner (possible) already has the drivers in place to make a smooth transition into the ALMS, especially since who ever "Sebass'" replacement is has very limited oval experience and I doubt Graham Rahal wants to drive open wheel cars on ovals.

That said, NHL (ha!) clearly wants to connect themselves to NASCAR either in a partnership or outright ownership (Roush maybe???) as Haas has connections to Ford and Newman to Nissan (hmm). Haas is also THE importer of Lola cars in North America.

Could Lola finally have the front line organization needed to field a competitive P1 car and take Cosworth with them????? Remember Cosworth already has an P1 Engine with no takers so far. They clearly have money to invest in a Nextel Cup team, why not a ALMS squad???

What Forsythe does if the doors close is anybody's guess. They are a Canadian based team and Indeck is a Canadian based company

I'd like to get your thoughts and opinions. As much as I would like to see CART/Champ Car whatever live on, IRL is the stronger of the two series and that ain't saying much IMHO...

[Bob Riebe]

The IRL has the Indianapolis 500, as long as that exists the IRL or whatever connects to the five hundred will exist.
It , like Daytona and LeMans exists because it has history, you cannot imitate history or create a event to pretend it has one out of wishful thinking or even money, unless somone bankrolls a five million dollar purse for seven years or so. (Bill France created history for Daytona by running darn near anything that had wheels on it there, plus it was extremely fast at a time when for a circuit to be renowed, fast was prime requirement.)

There is no reason for a CC team or a IRL team to putz around with the IMSA or GARRA, unless the team owner is a true gear-head like Penske and simply does it for the sake of doing it.
Even at that Roger Penske on stuck around because he could talk others into backing him, which eventuall became mutually profitable. (Sunoco and DieHard)

Cosworth can play the NASCAR game because when Ford owned it, its employees worked on the NASCAR engine also. Probably one reason Ford is the only factory still running an engine based on the one they used to put in production cars.

Bob

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

The IRL has the Indianapolis 500, as long as that exists the IRL or whatever connects to the five hundred will exist.
It , like Daytona and LeMans exists because it has history, you cannot imitate history or create a event to pretend it has one out of wishful thinking or even money, unless somone bankrolls a five million dollar purse for seven years or so. (Bill France created history for Daytona by running darn near anything that had wheels on it there, plus it was extremely fast at a time when for a circuit to be renowed, fast was prime requirement.)

There is no reason for a CC team or a IRL team to putz around with the IMSA or GARRA, unless the team owner is a true gear-head like Penske and simply does it for the sake of doing it.
Even at that Roger Penske on stuck around because he could talk others into backing him, which eventuall became mutually profitable. (Sunoco and DieHard)

Cosworth can play the NASCAR game because when Ford owned it, its employees worked on the NASCAR engine also. Probably one reason Ford is the only factory still running an engine based on the one they used to put in production cars.

Bob

Save for the 3 engine block revisions and the 3 or 4 cylinder head designs...

I am a Ford person, people are using NASCAR technology in their street cars as you know NASCAR rules mandate that any motor you build for Cup the parts can be purchased by anybody including another race team to see why it works so well...

That should lead to people stop putting Chevy's in Toyotas when those parts become somewhat affordable...

But I digress...

Puttering around with ALMS? With GARRA I understand, no fans, no importance, why its even around anymore, because somebody is writing the big checks. At least now Dr Don doesn't have to write so many large checks to keep his series running...

Not with CCWS buying chassis from him... for example

Like I said even if it does close its doors next season, maybe 1 team would move over to either road racing series. I'm sure some would go into Cup or depending on age like Peter Siekel just sell it off and retire.

The main thing is it would be one less series to companies looking to be involved in motorsports to support and I don't think they would automatically "run" to Cup because that is after all the low common denominator that only heard of Pa'tron because some rapper mentioned it in a song.

GARRA has TV but no eye balls

ALMS is on OTA TV at least 5 times a season

They can both exist exclusively to each other, but I believe in the end it make take 10 years to find out, but one will die and I vote GARRA will re-invent itself sooner rather than later. You can't keep racing in front of nobody...

[AU N EGL]

Long winded there eh DJ?

[Zytek_Fan]

If Champ Car can bring in some big sponsors, they then can promote themselves better...but of course all Tony George wants to do is bury CC so his faltering IRL can "prosper". I personally despise IRL because I found ovals incredibly boring, open wheel cars should never have to drive on ovals, the cars are designed terribly (look at how many times those f***ers have flipped over this year). In my eyes CC is the superior series, it's more pleasurable to me to watch a CC race because it's less predictable, it just needs sponsors, and something more to bring crowds. The new chassis this year, the Panoz DP01 is a step forward toward that, but CC needs a hell of a lot more.

I plan on attending the ALMS in Portland, Ore in 2008, if it's back and if there is the combined event with IRL, I will refuse to watch IRL.

[TWK]

I plan on attending the ALMS in Portland, Ore in 2008, if it's back and if there is the combined event with IRL, I will refuse to watch IRL. - Zytek_Fan

Portland does not appear on the already-released 2008 IRL schedule, nor (from what I hear) will it appear on the 2008 ALMS schedule.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by dj4monie

Which teams do you believe are likely to jump to the ALMS or IRL or even parish the thought, NASCAR?

Out of all of them, I believe Newman/Haas/Lanigan will make the jump to Cup as Carl Haas isn't a big fan of spending his own money, which unless he finds a suitable technical partner (possible) already has the drivers in place to make a smooth transition into the ALMS, especially since who ever "Sebass'" replacement is has very limited oval experience and I doubt Graham Rahal wants to drive open wheel cars on ovals.

That said, NHL (ha!) clearly wants to connect themselves to NASCAR either in a partnership or outright ownership (Roush maybe???) as Haas has connections to Ford and Newman to Nissan (hmm). Haas is also THE importer of Lola cars in North America.

Could Lola finally have the front line organization needed to field a competitive P1 car and take Cosworth with them????? Remember Cosworth already has an P1 Engine with no takers so far. They clearly have money to invest in a Nextel Cup team, why not a ALMS squad???

On one hand, you acknowledge that Haas won't spend his own money, then on the other, you mention that they have the money to run an ALMS squad!! I would love to see Haas in the ALMS, but I certainly have doubts. I believe Haas would stay in Open Wheel, and join the IRL. As it is, Haas is not young, and probably will only run a team for a few more years.

What Forsythe does if the doors close is anybody's guess. They are a Canadian based team and Indeck is a Canadian based company

Gerry Forsythe is an Australian, and both Indeck and Forsythe racing operate out of Illinois. At this time, Illinois is not part of Canada, though if the US dollar keeps falling, it might be traded in exchange for a currency stabilization agreement with the Canadian Government.

I fear Gentilozzi might look at the ALMS, though I would strongly encourage him to look anywhere else please. PCM would probably be the other organization. Otherwise, forget about teams, though there could be some drivers, and an event to picked up.

[Nedley Mandingo]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Gerry Forsythe is an Australian, and both Indeck and Forsythe racing operate out of Illinois. At this time, Illinois is not part of Canada, though if the US dollar keeps falling, it might be traded in exchange for a currency stabilization agreement with the Canadian Government.

Gerry Forsythe is very much not Australian.

This whole topic is fairly ridiculous. If CC fails, the only implications for ALMS would be the possible pickup of a couple of cars. The bulk of CC teams would either switch to IRL or cease to exist, and the same can be said of the venues.

[TheNewBob]

Originally Posted by Nedley Mandingo

Gerry Forsythe is very much not Australian.

This whole topic is fairly ridiculous. If CC fails, the only implications for ALMS would be the possible pickup of a couple of cars. The bulk of CC teams would either switch to IRL or cease to exist, and the same can be said of the venues.

To go a little further into this, and forgive me if I'm digging up old ground here, how do costs compare between the series? How much is it for a competitive season in ALMS, CCWS and IRL?

I would also ponder which category some of the teams would consider. Would they all go straight into LMP2, or try their hand at GT2? I exclude GT1 for obvious reasons, and I fear some may not even begin to think of P1 due to the presence of Audi.

[Jonerz]

Gentilozzi and PCM, assuming CC fails, have GA history so I imagine we'll see them go to GA. Presumably most CC teams will just fold up and anyone of them that actually owns a Panoz chassis will sell it to a wealthy business man to run in the BOSS series or something. You will probably see Haas (with cronies Lanigan and Newman) go to Indy because, as much as I resent the IRL, Indy is where U.S. open-wheelers belong - and Mr. Haas knows that. If the CDW sponsorship comes to ALMS as a car-sponsor one can pretty much guarantee Wilson gets a ride. Heck, if CDW does come aboard as a title sponsor, as some rumors suggest (rumors I don't subscribe to) examining what Justin can do with his career at this point ALMS makes good sense. Of course, if he is a die-hard open-wheel guy perhaps the IRL is for him. He has experience in DP's but LMP2 (and presumably LMP1) cars drive very much like open-wheel cars as his open-wheel refugee friends will attest to - so maybe even as an open-wheel guy we'll see him running in the ALMS. If CCWS does call it quits it will be like seeing your 15 year old dog die. Yeah its sad to see your buddy go because you love him to death and inside you want him to live forever, but you want him to be happy, healthy and at his prime unfortunately you've known for a handful of years that he is in pain and has got to go. I'll miss the series that hosted my first ever live race ('93 Molson Indy) and I'll miss my favorite years of '97, and '98 but I miss them and Champ Car is still alive. In the IRL vs. CCWS battle I'd very much prefer to see Champ Car fail because I think Tony only made the Indy Racing League in an attempt to gain control of American open-wheel, but as it stands now I think I prefer the IRL's direction.

Chris

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Nedley Mandingo

Gerry Forsythe is very much not Australian.

Your right, he was born in Illinois as well. My apologies.

[minimangler]

Why all the goddamn doom and gloom???

IRL and Champ Car have been in this state for years, and they're doin the same as ever!

It makes no sense to me!