If only a series could be like the late 80s BTCC

[Mike Sheraton]

if only a series could be like the late 80s BTCC, i know there are many like the Pre 93s at the CTCRC which i am going to join next year.

However if only there could be a class system such as the production saloons rules with Ford Sierras and saphires in class A, with BMW M3s and maybe the odd 325i in class B, then with astras and golfs etc in class C and downwards.

How great would it be to race in this kind of a championship.

[Neil Adams]

what you describe sounds exactly like the toyo tyres racing saloons to me ?!

[Al Weyman]

Not quite as they (Cossies) cannot run a Group A gearbox, cannot run twin injectors and a T4 Garret Turbo (as per RS500) and have a restrictor in the inlet manifold and I say just as well! Same with CTCRC pre-93's incidently but I will say both these championships/series do rather favour the M3 and if anything Toyos a little more as at least we have a big cc class in Pre-93's but thats not to say either are perfect by any means but both are a reasonable compromise.

What I would say however is that I am glad the Cossie is not allowed out in its untamed RS500 guise as you would then have to allow in monsters like the Nissan GTR's and the rest of us including the Bimmers may as well pack up and go home its also the car that ruined the real heydays of BTCC in mine and many others opinion, the days of the Rover SDI's etc, if you want to see a reasonable recreation of that look at the clubs Group 1 championship although we could do with a few more entries right now.

Its OK to feel nostalgic about the past but bearing in mind we are just club level racers mostly without backing trying hard to put on a show. In the heyday of 80's BTCC they were backed to the hilt by manufacturers who poured in millions and who would have no interest whatsover in what we are doing today nor would any other backer if we are realistic, did you know we don't even have cash paying sponsors for the whole championship, just coverage in Road & Race mag?

[BertMk2]

Sounds a lot like a whole host of club championships - DMN, LMA, SEMSEC and a whole host of others. Multi class championships where the smaller engined cars can win the championship outright. Nothing unusual is it? I thought that was standard fare for club level championships.

[R59]

Al, you ol' killjoy!
Where's that video you were going to post on Youtube?

[Al Weyman]

Ha ha, I have it here Rob and it shows a fair bit of your truncated run but its a .vob file and I am looking for a freebie vob to mpeg4 or avi prog so I can edit it and rip it to post on Youtube,everyone I download they want paying about 30 bucks once you get started and much as I like you 30 bucks is 30 bucks! :-)

[kelvin88]

I would like to see the 750 mc attach the rules of Stock Hatch to 2ltr 4 door saloons. Not that we need another championship, but i do think it would make for a good burn up.

[Robert Morris]

I think we should take a good look at the grid sizes this year before we have any more championships. We need to support what we have already.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by Mike Sheraton

if only a series could be like the late 80s BTCC, i know there are many like the Pre 93s at the CTCRC which i am going to join next year.

However if only there could be a class system such as the production saloons rules with Ford Sierras and saphires in class A, with BMW M3s and maybe the odd 325i in class B, then with astras and golfs etc in class C and downwards.

How great would it be to race in this kind of a championship.

Mike

Have a look at the CSCC "Future Classics" series. Its a series for 70s and 80s Sports, Saloons & GT cars & the cars you describe would be eligible in that series. Indeed cars such as Sierra Cosworths & BMW M3s already take part. The races are 40 mins long for max track time and there is a compulsory pit stop to allow a driver change (if required) meaning that two drivers can share entry fees and costs.

The rules and regs are deliberately limited in number to allow the max number of cars to be eligible. The main eligibility features are that cars cannot have sequential 'boxes, must have the same type of engine & induction system as in production (throttle bodies are allowed where a car was fitted with injection) and bodyshells must have the same silhouette when viewed from the side, front & above (ie no big winged specials, if it wasn't a production item!)

[Michael24]

This is a very interesting thread!!!

Right now, on the Dutch autosport.nl forum, there's a thread on what it would take to organize a Masters of Touringcar event. It would be fantastic if we could have different era's on one day! 70's, 80's, 90's (pre 1994 - no wings and stuff) and superproduction/S2000 or whatever it is, they're using today (it seems mr Lotti can't even answer that question anymore). We could have modern 20 lap runs and maybe even an two or three hour race. Oh my, I am getting a bit dizzy now ....

Michael

[Al Weyman]

Nip over to Lydden on the 25th July and see the whole spectrum of races put on by the Classic Touring Car Racing Club which covers all you request, you could even enter a car in the open races!


Future classics is OK but not sure I like the lack of regs and the 40 minute races, each to their own.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Future classics is OK but not sure I like the lack of regs and the 40 minute races, each to their own.

Of the FC regs, I think that the fact that bodyshells have to the the original size and shape in all planes limits a lot of the more outrageous modifications (and expense) and the fact that the cars run on List 1B tyres also helps keep costs down. The playing field is more level than you might think.

[Mike Sheraton]

well, i would like it if the CTCRC had an endurance race every year as it gives drivers a chance to bring in a friend or relative to share the car, and also it helps introduce new customers to the championship, bulstering grids.

[Al Weyman]

I would'nt as I only have an 8 or 9 gallon tank and it does 4 to 5mpg on the track :-) Also i am having trouble even finishing a qually session this year!

Andy the bodyshell rules are the same as in BTCC tourers, I can not see that stopping anything at all as far as expenses goes except massive wheel arches. I really think their rules are too loose for me but hey they are successful so someone likes them also they have that penalty for previous winners thing however I would imagine a canny racer would keep coming 2nd and win the championship! :-)

[Tim Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Its OK to feel nostalgic about the past but bearing in mind we are just club level racers mostly without backing trying hard to put on a show. In the heyday of 80's BTCC they were backed to the hilt by manufacturers who poured in millions and who would have no interest whatsover in what we are doing today nor would any other backer if we are realistic, did you know we don't even have cash paying sponsors for the whole championship, just coverage in Road & Race mag?

I'm not sure there were any manufacturers who poured millions into BTCC in the 80s. In fact I can only think of a handful of works programmes (although admittedly my early-80s knowledge is limited).

Ford - RSTs? Not so much with the Cossies, they were mostly privately backed.
Vauxhall - 1 year with the Astra in a lower class.
BL - Rovers, Metros - until they got the hump and pulled out.
BMW - Was Prodrive a works team?

Any others?

90s BTCC - different matter.....

[Stacy]

Originally Posted by Mike Sheraton

How great would it be to race in this kind of a championship.

Well, it would in some regards.

But mostly it wouldn't. Because beyond the rose tinted spectacles the fact of the matter is the RS500 Sierra sounded the death knell for the series as no-one else could get a look in..

S.

[Stacy]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Sounds a lot like a whole host of club championships - DMN, LMA, SEMSEC and a whole host of others. Multi class championships where the smaller engined cars can win the championship outright. Nothing unusual is it? I thought that was standard fare for club level championships.

Indeed, indeed. Another agenda at play?

S.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

I would'nt as I only have an 8 or 9 gallon tank and it does 4 to 5mpg on the track :-) Also i am having trouble even finishing a qually session this year!

Andy the bodyshell rules are the same as in BTCC tourers, I can not see that stopping anything at all as far as expenses goes except massive wheel arches. I really think their rules are too loose for me but hey they are successful so someone likes them also they have that penalty for previous winners thing however I would imagine a canny racer would keep coming 2nd and win the championship! :-)

Al, it isn't a Championship, its a Series and probably all the better for it!

[Al Weyman]

lets reliterate and say equivilant to millions by todays standards :-) Remember in the 89's a hose that would cost you £300,000 today could be bought for about £50k.

[joss Ronchetti]

There are plenty of championships where the RS500's still can run out in....but in this day and age they cannot run away with race wins like they used to.....last weekend at Donington Peter Chalis's Nissan Supertouer, Andy Harvey's Subaru, Simon Blankley's Seat Cupra and my 30 year old normally aspirated Sunbeam Lotus were all in the 15's round Donington.....quicker than Dave Brodies Cossie which was claimed to be one of th quickest,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Mike Sheraton]

when i made this thread, i did not mean ex touring cars, but just a championship that contains cars like this, like in the ctcrc pre 93s, there is a sierra cosworth, driven by craig jameson and all i am saying is that it would be nice to see a few more of them at the front of the grid
just gives a nice feeling, means nothing else atall, just because it gives me a small image of how it used to be before i was born, as i see on the videos.

[Stacy]

Originally Posted by Mike Sheraton

when i made this thread, i did not mean ex touring cars, but just a championship that contains cars like this, like in the ctcrc pre 93s, there is a sierra cosworth, driven by craig jameson and all i am saying is that it would be nice to see a few more of them at the front of the grid

Ah I see, well there are two to a very similar spec (identical restrictors & regs) as Craig in Toyo Tires Racing Saloons - Charlie Moseley and Colin Tester.

Charlie is reshelling his motor into a very nice car he's bought shortly too, really looking forward to seeing it up there.

S.

[MiniMadness]

Originally Posted by andy97

Of the FC regs, I think that the fact that bodyshells have to the the original size and shape in all planes limits a lot of the more outrageous modifications (and expense) and the fact that the cars run on List 1B tyres also helps keep costs down. The playing field is more level than you might think.

This sounds interesting will this allow a Toyota MR2, as most series are for saloon cars only, unless you race with Caterhams and alike plus I don't want to race in a one make series.

[Stacy]

There's a 911, TR7 and MG's in Future Classics so can't see an issue with an MR2? Need the organisers to pipe up to be certain though clearly.

S.

[craig j]

Hi Mike,

If you are at any of the forthcoming Pre-93 races then pop over and say hello and I will show you round the car. I could also help out with any questions you might have about the BMW as I ran for many years in the PBMW series.

The prospect of seeing lots of M3s and 3dr Cossies racing together does sound great and would make a great spectacle. There are quite a few E30 M3s around, but not too many 3drs in production spec like mine. Most are now heavily modified for more extreme championships. Even including the heavily modified cars I think there are less than 10 3dr Sierras racing in the UK and only 3 build to production spec.

Cheers

Craig