[WTCC] Macau 15-18 November 2012

[FIRE]

With two fatalities in support classes the weekend has a bad start.

Huff on pole:
http://www.fiawtcc.com/uploads/files...g_combined.pdf



What's wrong with Coronel and/or ROAL in qualifying this season? Bad result again and again.

[smokinjo]

Huffy is so immature. How can he make such a silly mistake in race 1 ?

[jonboy1066]

What an immature post!

If he'd settled for second in a clearly faster car, he'd have been criticised by someone for being boring.

He's a racer and racers push the limits to win... When at the limit people make mistakes. At least he didn't take anyone with him... Unlike the Fluffy Frenchman.

Anyway, fantastic result for Huffy! Very pleased for him.

[I Rosputnik]

Huzzah for Huffy!

Hope he gets a drive next year!

[MikeD]

What a crappy champion and how sad for the WTCC that a mediocre driver like Huff who can only win race 2 races, can win the championship.

A Disgrace!!!

[flagwaver]

Too finish first first you have to finish. My own feeling is Huffy well deserved the championship as he had two "team mates" to battle with. Unlike some of the other WTCC champions, and I include Andy Priaulx in that. Who incidently only won 1 race when he won the 2005 championship

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by jonboy1066

What an immature post!

If he'd settled for second in a clearly faster car, he'd have been criticised by someone for being boring.

He's a racer and racers push the limits to win... When at the limit people make mistakes. At least he didn't take anyone with him... Unlike the Fluffy Frenchman.

Anyway, fantastic result for Huffy! Very pleased for him.

Take your red,white and blue-tinted specs off. Well done to Rob Huff, but he did make a mess of race one. He didn't need to take those risks. He's lucky he wasn't collected after the crash, otherwise it may not have been possible to get the car back and fixed. Winning a championship isn't all about going flat out constantly. Like Muller said, it was surprising to see him do that.

MacDowall's shunt was unnecessary, but that's down to his inexperience. Muller had nowhere to go and MacDowall went across his nose. For Kirby and Vaulkhard to be crying foul, was an absolute joke.

An enjoyable season apart from Suzuka and Brazil. Every other track gave good racing. Pleased for Tiago and the Honda and well done to Norbert for the Indie title. Oriola messed up bigtime.

[smokinjo]

Originally Posted by jonboy1066

What an immature post!

If he'd settled for second in a clearly faster car, he'd have been criticised by someone for being boring.

He's a racer and racers push the limits to win... When at the limit people make mistakes. At least he didn't take anyone with him... Unlike the Fluffy Frenchman.

Anyway, fantastic result for Huffy! Very pleased for him.

What is the point of doing that when he just need to keep his place? Yes, he's a racer and he push the limit to win, but just tell me which is more important? To win a race or to win the championship? I hope you would keep praising him for the move if he is not able to start race 2 and lost the championship because of this mistake.

[Icebaby]

Originally Posted by MikeD

What a crappy champion and how sad for the WTCC that a mediocre driver like Huff who can only win race 2 races, can win the championship.

A Disgrace!!!

Worst post of the year award.

[trebor901]

Rob Huff has deserved a world title for a long time, after always having to give it up for idiot drivers like Yvan Muller who didnt deserve anything after his driving antics this year.

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by trebor901

Rob Huff has deserved a world title for a long time, after always having to give it up for idiot drivers like Yvan Muller who didnt deserve anything after his driving antics this year.

When has he had to give it up? Seriously, give us some examples?

And Muller's not an idiot. He's a damn sight better than the vast majority of the dross in the BTCC. The BTCC's a poorer place without him.

[medius]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

MacDowall's shunt was unnecessary, but that's down to his inexperience. Muller had nowhere to go and MacDowall went across his nose. For Kirby and Vaulkhard to be crying foul, was an absolute joke.

This video is a bit clearer than the TV shots but I don't think Alex is to blame for the SEAT lifting and subsequently himself lifting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSCiuyBONNQ

[Craner Curves]

Good video. It was easier to make out the Seat lifting on that 6 inch HD Youtube video than the Eurosport SD coverage on my 42 inch telly this morning! And that'd explain Chilton's tweet about the 125mph crash! So many unanswered questions after the TV coverage.

[W.A Trichlorostyrene]

I do not really like where this thread is going, but anyhow.

Put your prejudges aside, and consider this.

Driver A has 7 race one wins. Driver B has 3, and Driver C has 1.

Driver C wins the championship. Driver B finishes 2nd overall, and, despite his seven race one wins, driver A finishes 3rd.

Just to show that in case of a "old fashioned" championship with no reversed grids, the championship results would've been vastly different.

To me it casts serious doubts over the current point system. Should reversed grid races have such a massive influence over the championship standings? Should reversed grid races really pay off as much as proper "qualifying grid" races...?

Granted, the points system was probably not designed with the thought of the possibility of having 3 competitors that far ahead of the rest of the field - so much that they would share the top positions in both races.

Anyway, congrats to Huffy - he should never be the one to blame for this somewhat controversial points system. In a way this is long overdue, having raced at the sharp end of the grid for almost a decade now, in both BTCC and WTCC. However, in my honest opinion, he is still not the one who deserved the championship the most in 2012.

[Craner Curves]

To be fair, Andy Priaulx wouldn't have won as many titles had it not been for reversed grids.

I don't mind it. There's less gimmicks than the BTCC for example.

[thlbtcc]

Originally Posted by W.A Trichlorostyrene

I do not really like where this thread is going, but anyhow.

Put your prejudges aside, and consider this.

Driver A has 7 race one wins. Driver B has 3, and Driver C has 1.

Driver C wins the championship. Driver B finishes 2nd overall, and, despite his seven race one wins, driver A finishes 3rd.

Just to show that in case of a "old fashioned" championship with no reversed grids, the championship results would've been vastly different.

To me it casts serious doubts over the current point system. Should reversed grid races have such a massive influence over the championship standings? Should reversed grid races really pay off as much as proper "qualifying grid" races...?

Granted, the points system was probably not designed with the thought of the possibility of having 3 competitors that far ahead of the rest of the field - so much that they would share the top positions in both races.

Anyway, congrats to Huffy - he should never be the one to blame for this somewhat controversial points system. In a way this is long overdue, having raced at the sharp end of the grid for almost a decade now, in both BTCC and WTCC. However, in my honest opinion, he is still not the one who deserved the championship the most in 2012.

You have a point to some degree, however you are failing to take into account that consistency and not just race wins is needed for a championship. Huff has been the most consistent of the Chevy drivers. To me, that is deserving. Lest us not forget that part of racing is overtaking and that is exactly what all 3 Chevy drivers have had to do all season long in Race 2. It's not as if Huff (or Menu for that matter, who scored more points from race 2 than 1 in 2012, despite getting the highest number of poles...) started from pole in Race 2 (not once the whole year, unlike Priaulx)

Your race one fact may be true and Huff (like Menu) has scored more points in Race 2 than Race 1 across the year. However, all 3 Chevy drivers were usually around each other on the reverse grid and clearly Huff managed to progress through the field effectively. Consider this....

Muller finished 8th or lower in 5 Race 2 races. Huff did not, not even once, throughout the entire season (lowest was 7th and only then on one occasion). That is a far bigger gap than simply reversing their qualifying positions.

As an aside, if you took all the seasons results and applied the old-fashioned points of 10-1, 1st through 6, (10, 6, 4, 3, 2, 1) and no points for qualifying, Huff would have 124, Muller 122 and Menu 113.

[helgi]

Consistency is not the best way to choose. It can be said that Huff was not putting 100% every race, and Muller was. And sometimes was faster than it needed to be. Or maybe he was just tired by this championship and had no motivation. It's pity that 2013 season won't put some light on the question whether Huff was a real champion or just consistent finisher, as it seems to be that Honda is going to smash the opposition and private Chevy boys are midfield grid fillers again.

[Hazard]

Originally Posted by MikeD

What a crappy champion and how sad for the WTCC that a mediocre driver like Huff who can only win race 2 races, can win the championship.

A Disgrace!!!

This is a particularly bad post as was said earlier, particularly since Huff's won five races this season.

Does nobody check their facts? How has this debate raged on for so many subsequent posts without this being pointed out!?

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by Hazard

This is a particularly bad post as was said earlier, particularly since Huff's won five races this season.

Does nobody check their facts? How has this debate raged on for so many subsequent posts without this being pointed out!?

it is a crappy post but youve misread it as it was pointed out he only won race 2 races and not that he has only won 2 races.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Hazard

This is a particularly bad post as was said earlier, particularly since Huff's won five races this season.

Re-read the post. MikeD is not saying that Huff only won two races but that all his wins are from the second race of the meeting. I nearly made the same mistake and posted a similar reply.

[marcosgt]

Personally, I think the WTCC works quite well.

Perhaps its a little contrived, but it could have been all over half way through the season. Once again, it went down to the wire.

I think Muller was 100% to blame for that accident, but I'm not slightly surprised he's pleading innocence, he's the WTCC's Matt Neal, happy to whine when he's on the receiving end, but Mr Teflon when he's dishing it out.

Front on or from the back, he'd lost grip and slid into the yellow car, sending it into a spin. He'd done the same a lap or two earlier, with no-one in his way, but this time there was a car to hit.

It was plain bad driving, worthy of a black flag, imo. I think he got let off very lightly.

Huff stuffed the first race, he should've sealed the championship there and then and saved the heroics for race 2 - He'd be rueing his decision if that SEAT had bounced back off the armco.

So, WTCC 2012? Lots of circuits unfit for an MX5 clubby series, only 3 proper race cars, but exciting to the end.

Thank God for reversed grids...

M.

[thlbtcc]

Originally Posted by helgi

It can be said that Huff was not putting 100% every race, and Muller was.

How? What a load of gibberish.

[Hazard]

Originally Posted by redshoes

Re-read the post. MikeD is not saying that Huff only won two races but that all his wins are from the second race of the meeting. I nearly made the same mistake and posted a similar reply.

I see. I remember Andy Priaulx doing exactly the same in 2010...pointless argument. It's the way the system works. Ditto Plato in BTCC 2004.

[James C.]

Originally Posted by redshoes

Re-read the post. MikeD is not saying that Huff only won two races but that all his wins are from the second race of the meeting. I nearly made the same mistake and posted a similar reply.

However, Huff had one Race 1 win this season (Salzburgring), and it was the only race he won starting from pole.

Otherwise for Huffy's race 2 wins, here's the starting positions of all works Chevy drivers :

• Slovakiaring : Muller 5th, Huff 4th, Menu 2nd
• Curitiba : Muller 10th, Huff 8th, Menu 9th
• Sonoma : Muller 8th, Huff 7th, Menu 10th
• Shanghai : Muller 9th, Huff 7th, Menu 10th

It's not like Huff had started from pole, albeit being almost always in front of his team mates and main opponents.

[Greem]

If Huff had run away with victory in every race people would describe him as an unworthy champion because it was boring.

If Huff hadn't won any races but still won the championship people would describe him as an unworthy champion because champions should win races.

If Huff had a mix of results through the season (which he did) with some wins, some middling results and the odd bit of bad luck (which happened) people would describe him as an unworthy champion (which they are) because... well, I don't really understand why. Because he's not Muller or Tarquini or Thommo or someone else, apparently.

The driver with the most points at the end of the season won. Twas ever thus.

I think he deserves it, personally.