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| View Poll Results: Villeneuve - Another championship or not? | |||
| He is good enough to win another WDC and deserves a shot |
   
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23 | 53.49% |
| He is'nt good enough or others could do better |
  
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20 | 46.51% |
| Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll | |||
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Thread Tools | Display Modes |
1 Jun 2003, 08:26 (Ref:616478)
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#1 | ||
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Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 7,643
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Villenueve : Has been Racer or Champion in waiting?
He was brilliant in CART, and showed his talent in 96 and 97. But since then I've felt he is a pay cheque driver.
Apart from the Villenueve diehards, does anyone think JV deserves the opportunity (or even has it in him) to take another WDC? I dont think so for 2 reasons. Firstly, while I understand he has'nt had a competitive car since 97, he has'nt done anythying impressive since. He does'nt make the most of what he has to work with. He has'nt dominated his team mates like a great does, and has not really developed the car they way MS has at Ferrari. On top of all this he is a PR nighmare and critisis his own team publically & constantly. Secondly, if a top drive came up, there are many other worthy drivers that would'nt cost as much, are as fast or faster, and have'nt had their first bite at the cherry yet. IMO, Alonso, Fisi, Webber and a few others would all be better prospects both now and in the furure for a top team. So 'hack' or 'champion in waiting?' |
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#Keepfightingmichael 
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1 Jun 2003, 08:55 (Ref:616497)
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#2 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,339
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I believe he only has a motivation problem. After first year and so many DNF he simply lost it, but I do believe he could be back in a good car.
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Let it be
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1 Jun 2003, 09:02 (Ref:616505)
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#3 | ||
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Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 7,643
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Agree with you about the motivation part. He does'nt have much these days. But is that good that a top team would choose him whih a 'might' still have it when there are so many out there that clearly do?
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#Keepfightingmichael
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1 Jun 2003, 09:06 (Ref:616507)
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#4 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,134
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he's had chances to join top teams before if my memory serves me correct, however, there was this guy called Craig Pollock who really messed him up and he joined BAR - believing all the hype surrounding the team.
now we've got drivers like Raikonnen, Montoya, Ralfie, Button, Webber and Alonso - all of whom are very accomplished drivers and all possibly capable of winning a WDC, i think he is unfortunately a has-been. |
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Qui si convien lasciare ogni sospetto Ogni vilta convien che qui sia morta Here must all distrust be left; All cowardice must here be dead
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1 Jun 2003, 09:18 (Ref:616512)
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#5 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 674
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i agree with NJ (but please don´t name ralfie in a row with räikkönen and alonso)
unfortunetely, his time is over, he had his chance, he shouldn´t have stayed at BAR so long and now there are better and cheaper alternatives, if villeneuve doesn´t think about a pay cut he will not be around next year...and he should start to be faster than button... |
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1 Jun 2003, 09:52 (Ref:616550)
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#6 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,814
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I think that IF JV got another chance in a top team he'd be great, but with all the up-and-coming drivers we're seeing at the moment I don't think it's very likely and at least he does have a WDC and a few wins to his name.
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1 Jun 2003, 10:03 (Ref:616567)
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#7 | ||
 Race OfficialVeteran
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 13,212
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I agree, he'd be great value in a top team and could challenge for another WDC but he would really be up against it with some of the younger hard chargers around.
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__________________
"It's pure joy. This was the perfect training for the WEC after a summer of not racing, even though the car is faster than LMP2." Nicolas Minassian after lapping at 123mph in the Group C Jaguar XJR-14, setting a new outright lap record for the historic GP circuit at Silverstone Classic in 2013!
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1 Jun 2003, 10:25 (Ref:616581)
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#8 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,153
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It's pretty simple when you break it down this way:
- Checques' has been pretty much equal to Bunsen, at least not blowing him away. - Bunsen was not as fast as Ralf, even though it may have been down to experience. - Ralf is a sorry excuse for a driver, at least according to Monchoker fans. - Therefore, Checques' is a sorry excuse for a driver. 
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1 Jun 2003, 11:16 (Ref:616612)
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#9 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 4,477
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Haven't I seen this discussion before?
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__________________
"An ignorant person is one who doesn't know what you've just found out" - Will Rogers
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1 Jun 2003, 11:22 (Ref:616616)
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#10 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 5,361
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Villeneuve isn't good enough anymore. He only did anything decent when he had the best car, i.e. 1996 and 1997. When the Williams went to pot in 98, so did he - he managed a couple of podiums and only 21 points whereas Ralf in 99, in what was pretty much the same car, got 35 points and very nearly won a race.
Then there are his pathetic contract requirements - exclusive use of the spare car, hardly doing any PR events, etc. Okay, people like the fact that the guy speaks his mind, but he's in no position to criticise other drivers when he's done nothing for the past 5 years. If he got back in a top team I think it would be a waste of a good car, considering there are younger drivers with potential who will be better team players and won't have such huge salary demands. |
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__________________
"The more I see of the world, the more am I dissatisfied with it; every day confirms my belief of the inconsistency of all human characters, and of the little dependence which can be placed on the appearance of either merit or sense." -- Elizabeth Bennet, 'Pride & Prejudice'
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1 Jun 2003, 14:22 (Ref:616702)
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#11 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 13,211
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Wrexy you are naughty, you'll have certain fans getting their knickers in a twist over this one
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__________________
That's so frickin uncool man!
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1 Jun 2003, 14:24 (Ref:616704)
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#12 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,340
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Well with another blow-up today...I guess we'll never find out if he's still got it. Granted he had no shot at points due to the reliability of the top 4 teams (and the Bridgestone's sucking ass!) he was still running best of the rest before his engine blew!
 AHHHHHHH this is really getting tiresome  JV now has a 28% reliability level...that's right his car has failed in 5 out of the 7 races this year!!!! As I said in another thread I'm gonna go puke now |
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Doesn't it seem sad that drivers like Fisichella, Coultard, Barrichello, and Ralf all have secure seats in F1, despite having had race winning cars for many more seasons than Jacques, yet failing to chalk up as many wins as he (let alone a WDC) that it is Jacques who doesn't have a drive in F1??? Sad indeed.
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1 Jun 2003, 14:26 (Ref:616706)
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#13 | ||
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Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 5,305
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Is he gifted? Absolutely.
But I suspect that the edge is off. He's been away from the front for so long and has had too amny distractions. Idoubt he'd be a consistant force in a top car-but I'm not waiting for anyone to sign him either. |
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Go Tribe!!!!
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1 Jun 2003, 14:29 (Ref:616707)
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#14 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 13,211
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They mentioned during the F1 race today that JV might replace Panis at Toyota next season, if thats the case then JV has no chance of another WDC.
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__________________
That's so frickin uncool man!
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1 Jun 2003, 14:32 (Ref:616713)
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#15 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,434
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I dont think another championship will come for Jacues..he cooked his own pot when he took the money and went to BAR.
But I think he still has what it takes to win a few more races before calling it quits..the wins wont come with BAR Honda in my opinion..so Renault and Toyota would be the next two opportunities. |
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1 Jun 2003, 14:35 (Ref:616720)
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#16 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,340
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Quote:
 Where do they get this stuff from? |
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1 Jun 2003, 14:39 (Ref:616722)
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#17 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,340
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Speaking of Toyota though watching the New Zealand coverage down here (not sure if they get the same in Australia?) they have this guy who I think used to work for McLaren and still has some pretty good links in F1. Well he pretty much said flat out that he was aware that Scott Dixon (Kiwi driver) has been talking to Toyota and may be in line for a possible drive...just wondering if anyone else saw that?
Last edited by TeddyG; 1 Jun 2003 at 14:40. |
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1 Jun 2003, 14:58 (Ref:616753)
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#18 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 6,038
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Maybe he should take Button's car next time.... might not be setup for him, but it would at least finish the race.
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__________________
"I used to hate writing, but now I enjoy it. I realized that the purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog!" - Calvin and Hobbes
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1 Jun 2003, 15:04 (Ref:616762)
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#19 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 2,946
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Reliabilty has cost him, sure, but Button has simply been far better this season. Villeneuve has been fortunate in either a) having the best car or b) a succession of worthy-if-not-that-great teammates - situations that in both cases have flattered him somewhat.
My mum could have won the WDC in the 97 Williams. The fact that it went to the final race says more about how good Schumacher is than anything else. |
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1 Jun 2003, 15:14 (Ref:616776)
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#20 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 6,038
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I wouldn't go that far Tristan... Remember, HHF was his teammate, and Villeneuve was miles and miles ahead... He did nearly win his first race, and if it hadn't been for reliability during the season, he almost certainly would have won the 1996 world championship as well.
I think Villeneuve is one of those people that does best when he has a front running car, otherwise he is pretty mediocre. When runnning 1st or 2nd, he be the class of the field. David Coulthard is kind of the same way. Last edited by Jay; 1 Jun 2003 at 15:15. |
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__________________
"I used to hate writing, but now I enjoy it. I realized that the purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog!" - Calvin and Hobbes
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1 Jun 2003, 15:23 (Ref:616786)
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#21 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,340
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Quote:
That tells me that it was quite a competitive year. Actually the most competitive year F1 has had in some time. Granted the Williams was the better car at the beginning of the season, other teams had pretty much caught up by the half-way point and it was by no means a walk in the park for JV. Not to mention that it was only his second year in F1! Oh and by the way my GRANDMOTHER could have won the WDC in the 2001 and 2002 Ferrari's. 
Last edited by TeddyG; 1 Jun 2003 at 15:29. |
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1 Jun 2003, 15:28 (Ref:616797)
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#22 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 2,946
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My hamster could've. Not that I have a hamster.
I exaggerate, of course, but nevertheless, I've always LIKED Jacques and I LIKE his style. I just don't rate him particularly highly, that's all. |
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1 Jun 2003, 15:40 (Ref:616810)
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#23 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 13,211
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Quote:
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__________________
That's so frickin uncool man!
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1 Jun 2003, 16:32 (Ref:616871)
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#24 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,276
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Jacques diehard here, but I think he can still do it. He was, after all, being the best outside of the top 4 teams today, and he is not in a top car. I don't know how would it have gone for Jenson, but the gap between the first 4 and the other 6 teams was too big today. Jacques deserves a shot at the title again, but will not get it with BAR...
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"Many people depend on motor racing for their livelihood, to them it is a business. To me, it is a sport." -Jim Clark
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1 Jun 2003, 18:11 (Ref:616976)
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#25 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,986
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BAR and Honda are getting better but not "better enough". This weekend was a bad one. Last weekend they showed some impressive pace even though again JV had problems. If JV stays with BAR it would take at least two more years IMO before he will be able to challenge the top teams. I feel most drivers could win the WDC in the right car. In fact it takes the right car to win. MS would not be as good in a Williams. Kimmi would not be as good in a BAR. I like JV's racing. He is a lot like Kimmi, JPM and MS. They don't know how to quit. He deserves better. Button has time. He can afford maybe another couple years "in development". JV needs it now.
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Eventually we learn
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