Rubens and the F2003GA

Mr V · 2 Jun 2003, 11:02 (Ref:617594)

Ever since the new car has been on the grid, Rubens has seemed to struggle with it, witness being beaten by Fernando in Spain, Kimi in Austria and his (relatively) poor performance yesterday in Monaco.

It's often said that a good (brilliant) car can "lend it's hand" to a drivers deficit, that imo, is what allowed Rubens to get so close to Michael, (in performance terms, if not points scored) in 2002 when Ferrari had quite possibly, the best car F1 has ever seen.

Ferrari are saying that this years car is even better, (i'm not so sure, but it's certainly as good as the F2002) so why is Rubens all of a sudden struggling?

It's not the sort of thing that Ferrari will want if Rubens wants to be the teams number 1 whenever it is Michael decides to retire.

f1manoz · 2 Jun 2003, 11:09 (Ref:617602)

I don't think this new car is better. And Rubens appears to have a major confidence problem.

Irv the Swerve · 2 Jun 2003, 11:18 (Ref:617612)

Rubens is a confidence driver. If he gets down in the mouth about things - it takes him ages to perk up.

Thing about Rubens is he still drives in a more traditional right foot on the brake style (even though he karted extensively)and I have often wondered how this can be as quick as the left footers. I'm pretty sure it effects the way he sets it up. Michael sets there car up with oversteer because he turns in early and drags the back around, but I don't know about Rubens - he seems smoother and more classical. If the 2003GA is built for Micky the Shoe, and fits him, maybe its understandable to see Rubens struggle, initially at least.

Korr · 2 Jun 2003, 11:27 (Ref:617630)

MS can drive a pig of a car better than anyone. I'm not saying the 2003 GA is a pig, but it looks as if it needs a bit more development, particularly in the tires.

RB is a very good driver, and he will catch up to the new car soon.

I hope!

Hugh Jarce · 2 Jun 2003, 11:33 (Ref:617637)

I reckon the 2003 is not as brilliant as the 2002 and couple that with the fact that the other leading teams have closed the gap and it is going to make Rubens look less invincible.

As ever in F1 you can't be seen to be 'mediocre' for too long, so if Rubhino is not in the top 3 or 4 drivers in the championship, I seriously wonder what will happen?

Irv the Swerve · 2 Jun 2003, 11:40 (Ref:617648)

Quote:

Originally posted by Hugh Jarce
As ever in F1 you can't be seen to be 'mediocre' for too long, so if Rubhino is not in the top 3 or 4 drivers in the championship, I seriously wonder what will happen?

I don't - he'll get the boot.

Korr · 2 Jun 2003, 11:40 (Ref:617649)

I haven't had the chance to watch the races RB had in the 2003 GA. How many races did he have the misfortune of crummy luck in pit stops etc etc?

Inigo Montoya · 2 Jun 2003, 12:24 (Ref:617689)

The new car is every bit as good as the F2002 plus a step up. Besides Monaco it had every fastest lap, pole, and win since its introduction. Keep on hoping guys...

Gore · 2 Jun 2003, 13:01 (Ref:617721)

It was striking last year how Rubens' performances relative to TGF suddenly improved when he got the F2002--his first race in it, at Imola, was the probably the first where RB was a genuine match for Schuey on qualifying pace, a situation we saw repeated at various subsequent events.

This suggests some characteristic of the F2002, not present in the other Ferraris these two drove as team mates, that favours Barry relative to Schumacher.

I remember from Rubens' Jordan days that it was the 195's inherent oversteer that disadvantaged him relative to Irvine; apparently RB's preference was to brake earlier than EI but to then balance the throttle and maintain a higher apex speed. Most of Schumacher's team-mates meanwhile have complained that the cars designed around him are more nervous than they would like, so perhaps the explanation is that the F2002 was an unusually understeer-y car. Or at least responded better to an understeer producing set up.

**Bononi** · 2 Jun 2003, 13:08 (Ref:617728)

There's no much Rubens could do this weekend. But I believe he will improve the next races.

garcon · 2 Jun 2003, 13:11 (Ref:617731)

Could be that the F2002 suited him more than the F2003. But we've only seen three races so far, so I think we need to wait a couple more. Rubinho needs confidence to drive well - a couple of bad results and that ebbs. He'll probably stick around 3rd or fourth in the championship, which would probably give Ferrari the manufacturers' title if Michael wins the WDC. That could be enough to keep his seat.

There's rumours that he may go this winter - I doubt it. I think he'll probably go when Michael does. Unless they're really keen to promote Massa to the no. 2 seat before Michael retires.

BootsOntheSide · 2 Jun 2003, 14:21 (Ref:617818)

I think Ferrari would be wrong to build the post-Schumi Ferrari around Rubens. I also think they'd be wrong to change both drivers at once - grooming someone to take over first would be ideal. Given that, I think Rubens could, and maybe should, go at the end of this season. Anyone could've finished second in the 2002 Ferrari, and he seems to be struggling this year.

I'm not sure where his confidence has gone, maybe the Australian crash and Brazillian misfortune have contributed, or the rumours as to Massa having designs on the seat. However, he does seem some way off Rubens' pace.

If Massa is given the race seat for next year, he will be able to show what hge can do in a racing situation, learn a lot about racecraft, which is what was lacking in his Sauber season, and learn from the master.

If Michael does retire at the end of 2004, they will certainly look to bring a big name driver in (Montoya? Alonso? Webber?), and it will depend on Massa's form as to whether he becomes #1,1a,1b or 2. If Micahel continues past 2004, Massa can establish hismelf further and take over later. And, if he fails to live up to expectations, they'll have a chance to replace him.

krt917 · 2 Jun 2003, 15:21 (Ref:617884)

It seems to me that when things get tough - ie. the opposition get closer or the car is less than perfect - then the gap between Schuey and Rubens gets bigger. Even Rubinho has said that. I think it's partly because MS IS a bit special and can pull something out of the bag when required and partly due to Rubens himself - lack of confidence or edge, whatever you want to call it.

I think the 2003GA is a fab car, but the Bridgestones are pants at the moment, hence Ferrari are having to work a bit. Result: Michael pulls out more of an advantage on Rubens.

**Bononi** · 2 Jun 2003, 16:50 (Ref:618004)

Exactly my thoughts.

And the Massa thing is just to push things more, the way Ferrari works, is clear that they won't risk switching an experienced driver for a driver that they're still working on him...

golem · 2 Jun 2003, 17:03 (Ref:618027)

I think Rubens is quick and needs to get his fire back that he can gain and lose like the wind changes direction. His romping away at Brazil was a good example. I strongly feel he'd have made a cakewalk of it had he not broken down.

Knowlesy · 2 Jun 2003, 18:14 (Ref:618138)

Rubens is merely a driver signed as number two to Michael, so of course he's not going to be that good. Last year, I feel, the car really helped him but Michael let him win all his races anyway (bar Monza). Now that the F2003-GA is rumoured to be more knife-edge Rubinho is struggling. I feel for the poor chap. He'll be booted out and replaced by someone-good-but-not-so-good-that-they-can-beat-Michael!

Knowlesy · 2 Jun 2003, 18:45 (Ref:618182)

ORIGINALLY POSTED BY GOLEM:
I think Rubens is quick and needs to get his fire back that he can gain and lose like the wind changes direction. His romping away at Brazil was a good example. I strongly feel he'd have made a cakewalk of it had he not broken down.

He was driving F2002 in that race.

Mr V · 2 Jun 2003, 19:43 (Ref:618284)

Quote:

Originally posted by Inigo Montoya
The new car is every bit as good as the F2002 plus a step up. Besides Monaco it had every fastest lap, pole, and win since its introduction. Keep on hoping guys...

Inigo old buddy, i think your missing my original intention of this thread. As you say, it has set fastest laps, poles and wins.....but only in Michaels hands.

We all know that Michael is a better driver than Rubens, that goes without question, but my point was, last year, (and the early part of this year), in the F2002, Rubens was mighty, witness Austria 2002, Silverstone 2002 and Brazil 2003 to name but a few. He hasn't looked anywhere near his former self in the new car.

I was just wondering why, not looking to put the red team down

ttc · 2 Jun 2003, 20:11 (Ref:618318)

Perhaps because he's only good if the car TOTALLY suited him?

MS, however as we know it, is more adaptive and more flexible.

Perhaps the new car is MORE powerful, more sensitive to setups (a BIG advantage at times, and disadvantage otherwise), and is MORE customizable but RB has not found his right setup as quick as MS has?

Just my 2cents cos the new F2003GA looked to be a better package, that is if you LOOKED at the one driven by MS...

Fuuny how the F2003GA is faster than F2002 and yet, even MS's Ferrari appears to be SLOW compared to Mclaren and Williams. Shows what difference the tyres make in the race, no?

Inigo Montoya · 2 Jun 2003, 22:23 (Ref:618482)

Quote:

Originally posted by mr v
Inigo old buddy, i think your missing my original intention of this thread. As you say, it has set fastest laps, poles and wins.....but only in Michaels hands.

We all know that Michael is a better driver than Rubens, that goes without question, but my point was, last year, (and the early part of this year), in the F2002, Rubens was mighty, witness Austria 2002, Silverstone 2002 and Brazil 2003 to name but a few. He hasn't looked anywhere near his former self in the new car.

I was just wondering why, not looking to put the red team down

Yes, v-man (may I call you that?), Rubens is a bit slow this year, but he wasn't setting the world on fire in the first couple of races in the F2002 either... I just think he is having a bad season. And I hope he is soon replaced

JohnSSC · 2 Jun 2003, 22:32 (Ref:618494)

I agree with krt917. Whatever the problems may be with the car - or more likely the tires - Michael can deal with it much better than RB. And in no way do I mean to slag off RB. I think he is a fine driver who is just struggling right now.

Apexx · 2 Jun 2003, 23:44 (Ref:618571)

I can't understand RB still right foot braking? Even Paul Tracey discovered, and has used to his advantage, this most important technique!! He learned this from his teammate (PC)during pre-season practice.

This might be something he should consider adapting to. It would allow him to take advantage of some of MS's setups.

Shake it up baby, cause what you're doing ain't working!!

But he is a nice man.

Mr V · 2 Jun 2003, 23:48 (Ref:618578)

Quote:

Originally posted by Inigo Montoya
Yes, v-man (may I call you that?),

of course

Glen · 3 Jun 2003, 08:19 (Ref:618882)

Quote:

Originally posted by Apexx
I can't understand RB still right foot braking? Even Paul Tracey discovered, and has used to his advantage, this most important technique!! He learned this from his teammate (PC)during pre-season practice.

This might be something he should consider adapting to. It would allow him to take advantage of some of MS's setups.

Rubens can left foot brake, and does in karts and road cars, but he has found that for some reason the technique impacts too heavily on fuel consumption for not enough gain in lap tiimes - so he doesn't.

**Bononi** · 3 Jun 2003, 12:41 (Ref:619103)

Exactly.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Ron & JPM on the F2003GA (Merged)	Inigo Montoya	Formula One	16	4 May 2003 13:57
Schummi on the F2003GA	Inigo Montoya	Formula One	7	3 May 2003 04:54
F2003GA: Two GP sims in a row with no probs!	Inigo Montoya	Formula One	6	24 Apr 2003 22:34
No F2003GA at Imola	Inigo Montoya	Formula One	22	15 Apr 2003 19:25
F2003GA smashes record - already!!!	Inigo Montoya	Formula One	26	12 Feb 2003 08:28