Grand Prix 3: What do you think?

[Gerard]

Grand Prix 3 is in da house!
I got it today and here is what I think of it.
Ofcourse this is just a first impression since I have only looked at it for a couple of hours. It's possible I could change my mind after I've gone through the whole package.

First of all, installation is easy, peace of cake.
I soon found out that the minimal requirements listed on the box are a bit foolish, since you really have to have a heavy computer in order to play the game properly.
For an example, with a 400Mhz computer and a Voodoo 2 graphics card, it will be impossible to play the game in a higher resolution than 800x600.
And with this configuration the frame rate will not be higher than 18 or 19.
But, overall it still looks good.

The menu's are a lot like in GP2. You won't have any difficulties finding them.
Gameplay is also the same.
Jacques Villeneuve still doesn't want to cooperate and is listed as John Newhouse.
There's no tobacco advertisement on any car.
Jordan has its Buzzin' Hornets but the sidepods on the McLaren are plain white.

Actually, there's not much exciting to tell, since the game plays exactly the same as its predecessor.
The only difference is in the 3D graphics.
I think they are wonderful.
Especially driving in the rain is alsmost the real thing.
A little bit too much on the throttle when it's wet and you're facing in the opposite direction.

My first impression, but like I said that could change when I've played the game a little longer, is that I expected more innovative changes.
Grand Prix 3 is Grand Prix 2 with wonderful graphics.
But these graphics make up a lot.
I do not regret buying it.
And with the patches that will be available soon the game will be up to date in no time.
I'm a happy bunny!

[Minardi fan]

Hmmmmm...

Can't quite decide...

Well, here goes.

Booted up, yes nice and easy. Took a while to work out how to configure the joypad, but after that I was up and running.

To be honest the graphics disappoint me - my computer isn't slow by any means, in fact it's better than most people have, yet still it chugs along pretty laboriously in 800x600 mode. The cars too look a bit messy. Running it in maximum res. is impossible.

The sounds are also a bit poor - for instance on the replays, the other cars are silent. As indeed they are in the game. Hmmm???

The water effects are verrrrry nice, especially the way the dry line appears gradually. The tracks are also very well done.

The handling of the cars takes some getting used to - to go from the beautiful, perfect handling of F1 '97 to this completely-understeering-yet-if-I-try-to-increase-the-wings-or-brakes-I-spin type handling. Maybe I just need to fiddle with the set up??? Any tips???

Control with the joypad is a perhaps a tad too sensitive, again something I will change tomorrow.

I'm also disappointed that you cannot watch a replay of the race afterwards. During is ok, but it means stopping the race for a while.

It is, it has to be said, both a disappointment in some ways, and in others very very good.

Just have to keep playing! YAY!

[Gerard]

More about Grand Prix 3.

After playing GP3 for more than 12 hours now, there are some interesting things I found out.
First of all, although GP3 is nothing more than GP2 with better graphics, I still like the game.
It does however have some flaws.

There is no way I could enter a corner at 180 mph with both front wheels locked up and at full steering lock and still make it round the corner when I jump on the accelerator.
But in GP3 it does this every time.

When I spin off onto the grass and bring the car to a halt, I engage first gear and bury the throttle. What should happen is that the rear wheels spin instantly, and you go nowhere, but in GP3, the car starts to slowly rev the engine and pull away nice under control.

Force feedback it totally unnatural and the most annoying thing is that there is absolutely no feed back when you drive over a rumble strip.

When you pass or are being passed by the opposition, there is no noise from the other car, the so called 'doppler effect.'

The crashes are not realistic. Crash at 200 mph head-on, and what happens, both cars just bounce off each other and do 150 mph in reverse.
If bits do fall of the car, they have no physical property whatsoever and you can just drive straight through a loose wheel and suspension as though it isn't there.

I also found a bug in the game.
Once, when I was in the middle of a race, lying in second place, I noticed in my rear view mirror that a crash happened.
I paused the game to look at it with the replay function.
When I returned to my car, I was lying in 14th place.
This happened in another race also.
I asked some friends of mine who also bought the game if they had the same problem.
And they had!
I e-mailed Geoff (Crammond) about this but haven't had any reply yet.

But, I'm not really complaining, I think there will be patches to these faults very soon.
I've downloaded some patches that are already available at the moment.
All of my cars now have Bridgestone tyres.
I updated almost all of the tracks, some now have better pitwalls and better ideal lines.
I also downloaded a 'framerate per second' editor.
I can now reach almost 85 fps.

Tell you more soon.

[Minardi fan]

85 fps???? HOW???? I'm only on 21!!!! TELL ME MAN PLEASE!!!

[Minardi fan]

Oh dear oh dear oh dear.

Did Geoff Crammond bother TO PROGRAMME ANY AI INTO THE GAME??? Opposition cars make no attempt to avoid you, the just plough straight in, punting you off the track as if you were made of paper.

I downloaded some patches - the frame rate one, and track updates, but I have no idea how to make them work in the game. Can you help Gerard, please??!!

That is one ANNOYING game.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!

[Gerard]

Minardi fan, the frame rate editor is easy to use.
But first you should do something very important. In your GP3 directory there's a file called 'f1gstate.sav'
Make sure you make a copy of this file in case anything goes wrong.
The frame rate editor will change this file.
When you start the frame rate editor, a window will appear.
Type in the path to find your GP3 program (usually something like c:\gp2\etc....)
Then change the frame rate to anything you like. Don't change it to 85 fps, because that's of no use. A frame rate of 31.9 will do.

To change the tracks in GP3 you will need a Track Editor.
The best track editor (there are already several around) is the one by Paul Hoad. You can find it at http://members.xoom.com/_XMCM/f1grandprix3/index.htm
However, this track editor is not an easy thing to work with.
Telling you how it works would probably take me another 10 pages, so be sure you read the manual which you can find on the above site also.
But be absolutely sure that you know what you are doing otherwise you will have to install the game again.

In the meantime I also found a program to change the numbers on the cars. You can find it at http://www.alphaf1.com/gp3
It's called 'car number editor v1.0'
Good luck!

[Jay]

In North America the game is not to come out for another 3 weeks. I suppose I could always get it the naughty way, but GP2 will do until then.

Gerard, about some of those problems with the driveability, do you have the drivers aids on?

GP2 was quite easy and somewhat unrealistic if you had the drivers aids on, but turn them all off and the it is a little more realistic. (ie bury the throttle and watch the smoke fly)

Some questions from a GP2 player:

Can you stall?
false starts?
get caught in the gravel?
Is there a difference between a tire wall and concrete?
pace lap?


Also can any of the GP2 upgrades (ie tracks, cars, etc) be used with GP3?

[Minardi fan]

No you can't stall.
No, there are no false starts.

Something I was appalled at was the lack of stop-go penalties...

[Jay]

For all the time it took them to make it, surely it would not have been that hard to introduce stop and go penalties and stalls.

I am into computer programing, and although GP3 would be immensly complicated, adding the above would not that hard.

But, then, I am not Geoff. Maybe there is something I don't know.

[Gerard]

I also wonder why it had to take so many years to make Grand Prix 3.
The only major thing that has changed in relation to GP2 are the graphics.

And yes Jay, you could do it the naughty way. There are already lots of warez sites were you can download the game.
But these sites are always a risk to download from.

I do not have the drivers aids on. Although I'm a complete nono at most of the racing games, I'm an expert on Grand Prix 3, since it has the same playability as GP2.

About your questions.
No, you cannot stall.
No, there are no false starts.
You can get caught in the gravel but only if you damaged your car in some way. If you didn't, there's always a way out of it.
I didn't see any tyre walls in the game, are there?
Ofcourse I don't go off that much, I told you I'm an expert.
There is no pace lap.
There's also no safety car, although I know someone who's working on that.
The only upgrade from GP2 that works in GP3 are the car setups.

Soon there will be a GPEdit program to download, just take a look at the following site. It's not ready yet and maybe someone else will get it done faster but here you can check how far they are. http://www.smyoung.fsnet.co.uk/gp3edit/gp3edit.htm

[Minardi fan]

When it comes down to it, GP3 is a phenomenal let down, and is missing so many parts which it should include to make it the ultimate F1 game.

Where are the stop-go's, false starts, F1 99's superb grid clutch, the safety car, pit stops on all race lengths, other car sounds, end of race replays... AAAAAAAARGH!

The graphics are nothing to shout about, the handling seriously annoys me because THE CAR JUST WON'T TURN, the AI is shocking, and it's too damn QUIET when you are playing! I want crowds, klaxons, other cars...

GP3 is such a missed opportunity.

[Jay]

I am not sure what language it was written in, but the graphics are usually the majority of programming in any game.

It sounds a little disapointing, but I will still buy it. Yes, I said buy. Besides, it's 42 2.88 meg files.

I will be getting sweet new Tbird(Athlon) 800 computer with a GeForce graphics card later this week. Hopefully this will be good enough for GP3 to run comfortably with all details at 800x600 or better.

If the rain is good, it will be worth while. You can customized GP2 to mimic rain conditions, but things like spray and a wet line are missing.

It's too bad you cannot use the GP2 tracks, although I doubt it will be that long before people start making GP3 tracks. We're missing the Malaysian track and the Indy track.

PS
I did a mock race(full length, Pro level) at Hockenheim today. I started 13th, and was running as high as 6th, but got passed by Frentzen and Schumi and fell to 8th. I spun out trying to pass Fisichella on the first corner of the 38th lap. drat! Just call me Zonta!

[Peter Mallett]

Gerard,

Surely the major change from GP2 is the wet weather races. GP1 had them, but 2 didn't.

[bella]

what is it like compared to f197? that's really good (i don't play it much - maybe therein lies the secret to enjoying computer games)

would it be worth buying? or wait until the price comes down?

having said that f197's wicked, my brother has a steering wheel and pedals - an essential addition.

too high expectations my friends...

[Gerard]

You're right, Peter. The most prominent change are the wet weather races, one of the reasons I like the game.
This game has the best wet weather effects I've ever seen.
And with new patches available almost every day, it's getting better and better.
I now have all the tracks updated, all tyres are Bridgestones with a better profile, I have a patch for my Voodoo 2 card which makes the rain a little bit thicker and gives a red glow to the tail lights, I have a fps editor and a Villeneuve helmet for driver 'Newhouse' (works only in software mode).

[Minardi fan]

I, on the other hand, have no idea, despite reading the 'read mes', how to get the patches to work.

I'm sorry, but F1 '97 remains the king of the F1 games.

[Gerard]

It seems to me it isn't that hard to make the patches work since the readme files tell you exactly how to do it.
I now have a GP3 Jam editor. With it you can change the liveries of the cars. It changes the jam.files to bmp.files which you can then copy to a graphics program like Paint Shop Pro. There you can change whatever you want.
My cars now have the original tobacco liveries.

[Minardi fan]

They tell you to mess about with the directories etc... and I haven't got a clue.

:confused:

[Jay]

How does F197 compare to GP3?

Can be customized in the way that GP2 and GP3 can?

Luckily by the time I get the game, most of the major bugs should be sorted out and hopefully all of the cars will be updated.

Gerard, do they have any of the 2000 F1 updates available? (ie 2000 liveries, Indy, Sepang, and other track updates.

Also, how many of you guys have a steering wheel/peddles. Microsoft's force feedback wheel looked quite good in the store (even had buttons where gear changing paddles are).

I currently play with a joy stick. It's not best for realism, but allows you to get a feel for it.

[Gerard]

Not all the updates to 2000 are yet available, but that won't take long.
At the moment there are no updates for the new tracks like Sepang and Indy.
However, I have every 1998 track in the game already updated, with better camera angles, better curbstones etc.
At the moment there are patches to show the original tobacco livery of every car that carries them.
No update for Jaguar at the moment, but my Arrows' are orange and black. There's a Jam editor available which turns jam files into bmp files. You can then download these bmp files into a graphics program like Paint Shop Pro, change whatever you like and then turn them back into jam files. I'm currently working on the Jaguar and the Minardi.

I have a Saitek R4 steering wheel with force feedback with which I'm very happy.
Microsoft's steering wheel is a good buy. The game does however have difficulties with force feedback wheels but there are patches available for this also.
If you don't have a steering wheel, don't play with the joystick, it's awful.
You can play with the keyboard, GP3 (and GP2 for that matter) are the only racing games designed for a keyboard.

One more tip, for a better cockpit view which is much more realistic, go to the Graphics screen and change the cockpit angle to 140% instead of the now used 100%.

Minardi fan, if you have troubles with the patches, just tell me what you want to do, e-mail me about it and I'll help you.

[Jay]

Although my MS Precsion Joystick is pretty goo, I will probably get a wheel. Gerard, you said you were using the Saitek R4. It looks pretty good on the company website. It has both paddle shifters and a stick shift, but will it last? This is a big problem I have had with Joysticks. They only last about a year and a half when used consistently.


Minardi Fan, what do you use?

[Minardi fan]

Being the PS junkie I am, I bought a joypad, which for me is fine - until I try something better. I may dig out my brother's steering wheel - it works on both the PS and PC.

[Gerard]

I can't tell you if it will last, Jay, I only have it for 2 months.
It looks sturdy enough to me, only time will tell.
Today I downloaded a patch for all 2000 cars and also one for all 2000 helmets.
There are also rumors going around that Geoff Crammond is already working on GP4, and that we don't have to wait so long this time.
Interesting.

[Minardi fan]

I'm not going to hold my breath in anticipation - especially since I haven't played GP3 since Monday.

[Jay]

Minardi Fan, You mention that the handling is 'understeery'. Have you played GP2. I thought GP2 was almost oversteery.