Where do things go wrong?

[Gt_R]

Fact, Ferrari had been pretty neatly screwed by Williams for the past few races. In fact, this whole season was pretty rotten by Ferrari's recent status. It started with the death of GA, a poor start to the season, and now struggling...

Many people lay the blame squarely on Bridgestone. Perhaps... but MS had hinted that having BS be held responsible for the failure is "over simplifying" the problem. RB had came out more forthcoming in a recent interview saying Ferrari is having a "car crisis", where they have failed to make their handling/reliability work.

So what could be the possible cause of the "car crisis"?

Could it be:
In terms of new innovations, that fail to work properly? I heard that their rear suspension this year uses a new structure, could it be too tricky to set up?
In terms of key personnels leaving Maranello at the start of the year? Did any important engineer/aerodynamist/etc leave for rival teams, hence leaving a gap?
Or other reasons?

Being a 'demanding' fan, i am disappointed (though the loyalty remains) with the turn of events, naturally. I remember the recent years where every race, Ferrari would experiment with some significant new upgrades like various wing design, but for the F2003, developement seems muted, limited to just minor touch up.

Pre-season testing have hinted that the F2003 is indeed a rather wild horse to work with, tricky to handle. And the slits at the side, though adding a "shark" feel to the car, is hint that not all's going well inside the hood...

Is it possible to salvage it?

[Adam43]

Talking of facts, how many races is it since Ferrari won?

[Gt_R]

Not to far ago....Silverstone!

But it's not enough to hide the fact that not only did Ferrari manage to lose a approx 1s per lap advantage they held last year, to a 1s per lap deficit to Williams now...

[gttouring]

what 4 races?
they are struggling in comparison to themselves, but doing as well as williams,and a point better.
the car might just be a beast to deal with, is it possible that the old chassis was the better one? and that the new one doe snot allow for proper cooling with out gills.
and yes the loss of key team elements is hurting the red squad, and the competition has heated up per nescessity.
however- few words have been said as Maclaren have also not been on form, 2 years after mika left the team was quieter as well, new chassis yes but not staggering performances, the Ferrari, maclaren juggernaut wars are done with it seems, now we have the williamsBMW interloper making fine stabs at the championship, and renault making it all the more difficult. this really is a good year for F1.
but the difficulties at Ferrari is only underscored and multiplied by a poor tyre, evidence that every other BS runner is at the back

[Bononi]

It couldn't last forever...

[Knowlesy]

Michael was saying at Hockenheim that the car is incredibly difficult to set-up. It seems to have a very tiny sweet-spot, whereas the Williams boys can drive through problems because it has a huge sweet-spot. A bit of understeer? just drive through it!

[Sodemo]

Its about time the tables turned, FORZA WILLIAMS!

[ASCII Man]

It's about *******' time too!

[Gt_R]

This year's car is basically an evolution of last year's car, which is easy to set up, and good to drive hard... so how did they manage to just go the wrong way with that...?? Remember, Williams had a difficult time with the FW25 set up at the start of the season, but have more than overcame it.

By the way, can anyone provide actual names of key personnel movement from Maranello?

The point of this thread is to pinpoint where Ferrari had falter. I'm not really into "Ferrari had used up their 3 years, now its another cycle", believing more in pratical reasons, and while no doubt Williams had done a great job, Ferrari seems to be a shadow of its former self.

[neilap]

At the start of the season MS was inlove with the car. Ferrari on a whole were very pleased with it. I dont feel there is anything inately wrong with it. Ferrari expected their entire package to be superior to the rest of the grid. Even with 'some weaknesses" the car was still the class of the field. All this was before Williams really put their heads down. I dont feel there is a deficit or fault with the car. I just think Williams, Mclaren, Renault... have a more complete and predictable package.

As for RB and MS's comments about it not being as simple as just the tires not being as good, I feel they are trying to "say the right thing". MS complained about the tires awhile back and one of his bosses was quick to "elaborate" on what MS meant. They have a lucrative contract together. No one really wants to **** the other off.

[RWC]

I think they are just having 'time trouble' with the development of the GA.They are trying wild setups to get extra development out of it in an attempt to keep up with williams.Williams had a similar problem at the start of the year and took AGES to sort it.
Will it take as long for ferrari to catch up again?Allmost certainly not but it's looking good for the championship!!!!
Once shuey gets to suzuka,williams will need all the advantage they can get!

[ralf fan]

I think it was in Brasil that Martin Brundle during TV commentry said that an engineer (didnt take names) left Ferrari for Williams during the summer and Williams were surprised that how far ahead Ferrari were than Williams.

At least weve had a better championship fight than last year.

[f1manoz]

There were only so many times Ferrari could make leaps and bounds. Something was eventually going to have to give...

[Jordi]

I think the engineer Brundle talked about might be aerodynamicist Dr. Antonia Terzi...

[Mr V]

There were alot of people on this forum who agreed with JPM and Ron Dennis when they said, back in Imola or whenever it was that the F2003GA might be abit faster than last years F2002, but not the step forward that Ferrari were making it out to be, and alot of others on this forum scoffed at us, well, we were right

[Gt_R]

Hmmm... i'm quite certain that the intention of this thread is to take a look into the factors which caused Ferrari's lack of performance, tire-related or more, and not a "I told you so!" taunting between various camps ya?


Perhaps you are right..just like how others were right to think that JPM won't blow everyone, esp MS, away in his first 2 years in F1, despite what his fans hyped..

see? If we keep such remarks going, it would start another 5 page long slagging match...

The question... "What's wrong with Ferrari?"

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Gt_R


The question... "What's wrong with Ferrari?"

The answer, the cars not as good on all aspects as last year and it's competitors have finally caught up, just one of F1's circles that happens every 3 or 4 years.

[kristof14]

I don't think that Ferrari have actually produced a bad car this year, it is simply a case of the other teams stepping up their games. Also maybe there was some arrogance from Ferrari after the last few seasons. Remember how awful the FW25 was supposed to be at the start of the season, well Williams knuckled down and sorted it. The same with Mclaren, theyve managed to keep last years car competitive, ferrari were probably lulled into a false sense of security thinking that a year old car couldn't compete with their new one! Also the tyres have played a role, if Bridgestone are to get their act together next year they need to step away from producing tyres purely for ferrari and actually start using all their teams for tyre development just like Michelin have done.

[neilap]

Whatever, I feel when the tires are equal the Ferrari will be the fastest. Its that simple. There is no secret that the most important part of any vehicle are the tires. Even on your street car. If you take of the all season tires and replace them with some sticky summer tires you would be surprised how much faster you can lap or how much grip you will gain.

We can dance around the truth all we want to, the fact remains that the tires are making the difference.

Now, since Ferrari and BS are almost exclusive we can blame Ferrari for being a bit behind. They have more input into the tires development than any other team in F1. If they can't get it right that way then they have serious issues. This to me this is the failure. Its not necessarily the car but the way they work with BS. Together they were not able to optimise grip and durability.

The fact that all the BS runners are suffering from issues with grip and graining goes to show where the major issue lies.

[Stuart Malaske]

Hit the tack on the hammer, Neilap.

The Ferrari is a screamin banshee. But those tires are not working for them. And the relationship between Ferrari and BS is hurting all the other BS runners.

[krt917]

Yes, Bridgestone are the main reason. The 2003GA is harder to set-up, as the drivers have said, and I think the new rules and circumstances caught them out a bit at the beginning of the year. However, the tyres are the main reason the Ferrari has not run away with the title this year. That's not to belittle the efforts of McLaren and Williams (and Renault) - they've made progress - but the Michelins have put them in the championship hunt.

[Adam43]

I agree with that you cool Porsche named one.

Of course part of the Michelin progress must be attributed to the teams testing them too.

[krt917]

Thanks Adam

And yes, the testing must help. It's not all Bridgestones fault, but they'll have to overcome it (or Ferrari will have to make their car REALLY fast!) to win the title.