Why don't a lot of the Holden Teams...

[tanalised]

.. have a left wing mirror

I've just looked at a bunch of photos over the past 4 years that I've taken and most of the Holdens don't use a left side wing mirror.
Don't know if this has been covered before, but does anyone know the reason for this?

[GTRMagic]

Aerodynamics... same reason the B&H and Diet Coke Commodores back in 1994 used to use BMW M3 mirrors, does the same job as a Commodore, but with less drag!

[Amaroo Park]

Originally posted by GTRMagic
Aerodynamics... same reason the B&H and Diet Coke Commodores back in 1994 used to use BMW M3 mirrors, does the same job as a Commodore, but with less drag!

On a Touring Car?????????????????????????????

[team8x3]

Maybe we can all chip in and buy Saifey one-he certainly needs it

[GTRMagic]

Originally posted by colinbond
On a Touring Car?????????????????????????????

Yes... you would be surprised how many teams have been working in this area recently, blocking up all holes and vents in the cars, in the engine bay, inside the cockpit, anywhere... for better air control....

And how many drivers suffer because of it... lousy airflow and all that...

... some Supercars have the luxury of power windows (pioneered by the Nissan boys 20 years ago!) and the driver can change the air coming into the car, while others arent as lucky!

[Morris 1100]

Also remember that the rear wing loves clean air and the wing is wider than the roof, no mirrors would give better air to the wing but the rules say you have to have a mirror so the fast ones run one, the slow ones don't know any better!

[Amaroo Park]

Would it really make that much differance on a wing that is supposed to only supply 100kg of downforce maximum

[GTRMagic]

Depends how anally retentive the chief engineer is... or indeed whether they invent such removals as a niggle, so when they are replaced by regulation, a noise can happen to make them out to be victimised....

Gotta love that politicking!

[peckstar]

1. shouldnt they make this a control thing?

2. its just me thinking but skaife was turned around by murf at GP on the left, contact with ambrose at NT on the left, contact with ingall at EC last year on the left.

Maybe there is a link

[aj_308]

its a side effect of governed parity, people will search for every advantage they can get, ever heard Ambrose whining about having to have the windows up? The Stones wont allow them down in any situation!

[peckstar]

ah but ambrose has two mirrors, at least at the start of the race (flashback to NZ)

[vortexo]

re the nasa vent on Ambroses window.

[aj_308]

and consequently, turns in on people a lot less.. which is also good for aero..

[Chucky]

An extra mirror makes a difference alright. As do certain kinds of stickers.........

[Mattracer]

They fold them in on shoot-out laps to reduce drag and close all the windows. Every little bit counts.

[peckstar]

herald sun on Friday

Ford have doscovered (dont know how) that a left hand side mirror creates an extra 7kg of downforce on the rear wing

maybe thats skaifes problem this year, lacking downforce

[1200Datto27]

Probably found that they can create a votice off the mirror that has an effect on the airflow under the rear wing (remember, it is the underside that does the work on a wing) by creating a lower pressure area between the bootlid and wing.

[Senna05]

Think about it, if thats the case, the cars with one mirror have an off centre aero downforce!

Then again, i've mentioned about driver weight and the effet on suspension setting on one side, specifically with enduros (one larger driver, one smaller one).

Interesting topic.....

[Chucky]

Originally posted by Senna05
Think about it, if thats the case, the cars with one mirror have an off centre aero downforce!

Only if the Commodore has the same quirk. The back window shape may offset any vortex running down the car and so not affect the rear wing at all.

Or, the drag saving may outweight the reduced downforce (if any).

Interesting alright. The level of knowledge and testing that goes into these things makes a mockery of the latest cost-cutting rule changes. As someone else said, it will only give the "haves" more money to spend on R&D into areas the "have-nots" wouldn't even think of looking.

[Onlooker]

He's a thought, a mirror of dubius alignment viewed by a driver in an instant,would not really give you a huge idea of what was going on as the time taken to focus and process the info would not be that flash,besides the left hand mirror is set at a different magnification so that car that you see in the distance would a millisecond later be up to the B pillar.
Some drivers may do well to heed the footnote that "Objects may be closer that they appear"

[1200Datto27]

You might also find that the Ford endplates will catch and redirect a vortice where as the Holden central support will not do so.

[Mattracer]

This is where true parity gets derailed- if the shape of the bootlid and rear window is different, and by associaion the design of the rear wing, either with end plates or centre mounts, how can a commonality betwen them be achieved if they are umm, different?

[aj_308]

that they achieve the same weighted downforce does not mean they have the same aerodynamic efficiency, it goes without saying if they are mounted differently. You wont ever achieve it whilst the body shapes differ anyway.


edit: fingers misaligned with brain..

[Senna05]

Holden has the endplates, however, a much smaller "face"....

I read an article recently about how Ferarri were able to produce X ammount of downforce by angling their endplates inwards, forcing more air onto/under the wing...

I wonder if Ford coudl do this in future aero packages...

Sorry to go off topic.

Also, I wonder if they are legally allowed to alter the mirror, so it is angled in the vein of a wing? More downforce!

Anyway, in todays day and age, why not have 2 cammera's on the boot aimed outwards and let them watch it on the in car TV? might sound stupid, but place the screen in the dash, and you might have a viable solution?

[Deano]

Ala Stokell's Lambo....