Da Matta Says "never Again"

[Matti Alamaki]

Interesting to read that Da Matta sees F1 as been truly uncompetitive. "There's just no cmpetition in F1" that says it all really about the state of F1 really.

It must be the most frustrating category for talented drivers to compete in, week in week out such drivers look ridicilous. Way off the pace but, little they can do about it.

Major re-think is needed to even up the playing field.

[Glen]

Perhaps he didn't notice that the first competition he should have been involved in was with his own team-mate! To CdM there was no competition, because he totally failed to provide any. shame - he looked really good on debut, but I think he just couldn't take the pressure.

[Turbo_Era]

He did well in the first year. His biggest mistake was the fallout with Mike Gascoyne.

If he was as smart as Panis... he would be there instead.

The rumour that one of them would be replaced in Germany (happened one GP later) by Ricardo, suggested Panis would be the one likely to go... But CdM as a good South American didn't play the political game well.

F1 is about driving and getting the best out of your car... but it's also working well with your team.

The best examples? M.Schumacher and M.Webber. Terrific team leaders.

[Turbo_Era]

How interesting! Was looking at old threads and found this one:

http://tentenths.com/forum/newreply....&postid=982145

25 May 2004 05:41

Originally posted by DieRitter
Well well... I'm not into giving things away, but looks like Zonta will get a race drive in July. Still don't know who will be replaced, but Panis is the most likely.

Good news for Ryan too.

This guy knew what he was talking about. Good stuff.

[BootsOntheSide]

Originally posted by Glen
Perhaps he didn't notice that the first competition he should have been involved in was with his own team-mate! To CdM there was no competition, because he totally failed to provide any. shame - he looked really good on debut, but I think he just couldn't take the pressure.

When you've won a series purely on your own driving merits (beating a former-F1 team-mate in the process), it must be frustrating to only be able to properly compare your performance with 1 other driver.

In any case, I think this is a little unfair. Once you consider Panis' more priviledged position within the team, his extra experience, and the fact that he's had much more testing in the 2004 car, CdM's record against Panis looks pretty respectable.

Clearly this quote is manna from heaven for those who want to see more emphasis on drivers in F1. What he says is essentially true, and relates as much to the difficulty of overtaking as it does to the variation in team performance.

[Glen]

Sounds like an excuse to me - can't get anywhere against your team-mate? Claim that it is not possible to make a differnece and therefore excuse yourself.

If the driver makes not much difference how come DC looks like such a chump vs Kimi?

In my opinion what he says is essentially UNtrue.

[MichaelH]

Dam Matta was always very even with Panis. He was much closer in qualifying this year, maybe a little less impressive in the races. But if I'd had to choose on purely racing ability I'd have drtopped Panis and kept CDM.

A very promising driver and a loss to the sport. I think he's sapot-on with those comments.

[Kicking-back]

da Matta is sacked by Toyota and no other teams show interest in him.

He says "I don't want to do F1 anymore!"

I suspect that's not a problem he'll have to deal with!

[climb]

Maybe he would like to have it, but, tough times for everyone in F1 let alone MS and few others.

[Kirk]

Please keep heads out of the sand. As have other decent drivers before him, Da Matta leaves F1 a frustrated man who is much better than his record indicates. His assessment of the sport is more accurate than many would care to admit, imo.

[climb]

Obviously, once you're outta here, it's easier to be frank and clear.

[Matti Alamaki]

Originally posted by climb
Obviously, once you're outta here, it's easier to be frank and clear.

Exactly, he doesn't have to be careful not to step on anyones toes in F1 now. He can say it, as it is. It's damn true what he's saying. I was never a fan of him but, he clearly can't be a bad driver. F1 constantly makes bad drivers look good and good drivers bad.

All depending on what team your with and how there performing.

All we have to do is look at Button, talk about from zero to hero simply due to team change...

[BootsOntheSide]

Originally posted by Matti Alamaki
All depending on what team your with and how there performing.

All we have to do is look at Button, talk about from zero to hero simply due to team change...

I think this is over-simplifying matters considerably. Firstly, many drivers have looked more impressive in smaller, midfield teams than in race-winning (or, at least, more competitive) ones - Ivan Capelli, JJ Lehto and Alex Zanardi come to mind.

Furthermore, by the end of his 2 years at Benetton/Renault, Button was 'hero' again, having outperformed Trulli comfortably and scored some impressive results with a mediocre car. It's only 2001 that made him look bad.

[Glen]

You guys are missing one very obvious point! Button has gone up in everyone's estimation because he performed very well against the other guy in the identical car. Clearly Mr Watch-on-Sunday-Only might believe that he has suddenly got much better, but real F1 fans know that the car has got better, hence the podiums. BUT. The car getting better doesn't give him more podiums than his team-mate - better driving does that (OK, in this example there has been some difference in reliability, but not every time).

CdM could have scored no points all season long, but as long as he out qualified and out-raced his team-mate (the only other bloke in the same car) the F1 world would sit up and take notice. He didn't, they didn't.

Any driver's quickest route to a higher scoring finishing position is getting into a better car, so to that extent what he said is true (and indeed it must be very frustrating when your team doesn't seem to be making progress). But the hard facts are that he failed to impress against the oldest driver out there - so he is outta there.

Better example: Mark Webber has had a car even worse than the Toyota, but he HAS managed to make a name for himself, despite scoring virtually no points.

Drivers DO make a huge difference, and it does the sport a gross diservice to peddle the myth that they don't.

IMO.

[Kicking-back]

Well said Glen, on the mark there.

da Matta flattered to deceive.

I don't believe he's top drawer, that's been proved and he's gone.

[Glen]

Oh, I think he is an excellent driver - they all are. But the very cream is at a standard which just frustrates the hell out of "normal" excellent drivers!

[BootsOntheSide]

Originally posted by Glen
CdM could have scored no points all season long, but as long as he out qualified and out-raced his team-mate (the only other bloke in the same car) the F1 world would sit up and take notice. He didn't, they didn't.

But the hard facts are that he failed to impress against the oldest driver out there - so he is outta there.

Better example: Mark Webber has had a car even worse than the Toyota, but he HAS managed to make a name for himself, despite scoring virtually no points.

Drivers DO make a huge difference, and it does the sport a gross diservice to peddle the myth that they don't.

IMO.

To turn your point around, da Matta "failed to impress" (that's debatable; I think he's done quite well) against the most experienced driver out there, who's younger than Mansell, Prost and Hill were when they won titles.

Taking the 'beating team-mate despite no points' logic to its extreme, the top teams are mad to overlook Baumgartner for next season, as he's outperforming Bruni. Clearly, people's perception as to the ability of a team-mate, and whether the team-mate is on form, come into things, and those of us outside the team (let alone outside F1 altogether) can't always get an unbiased accurate perspective on this.

Although drivers make a difference, it's fair to say that Bruni in a Ferrari woudl trounce Michael in a Minardi. If you're in a car like a Toyota, you can't hope for regular top 10 starts or competitive runs, and there's no guarantee that a top team will pick you up. Fisichella has beaten his team-mate almost every year (good team-mates as well) yet only now is he getting a car likely to challenge for wins).

[Kirk]

I don't think there was that much difference between Panis and CDM on the track. Toyota found a few scapegoats to fire after the disappointing results and Panis is still there due to his willingness to retire as an active driver, along with his experience and testing feedback. Personally I think Toyota would have been better off with the tandem of Trulli and CDM, but admittedly I'm a tad biased against Ralf. CDM may be just too nice a guy for the dog-eat-dog world of F1. It's too bad because under the right circumstances I think he could have fared much better.

[Hugh Jarce]

Reading between the lines on the press releases it seems like they thought he ought to be getting more out of the car than he did.

Comments like 'we seemed to be going backwards when others were competing' I think sum up the teams assessment of where he was at.

Maybe right, maybe wrong - it's immaterial.

Interestingly Da Matta criticised the car as being worse than last years, which is a clear dig.

[Testure]

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide
Furthermore, by the end of his 2 years at Benetton/Renault, Button was 'hero' again, having outperformed Trulli comfortably

*cough* *choke* That's arse. Button's a better driver now that he was back then, for sure, but I still don't buy that he was better than Trulli that year. Jarno had considerably more mechanical problems than Jenson in 2002. Of the races that they both managed to complete, though, Jarno was more often ahead at the end. Also, he "comfortably" beat Jenson in qualifying.

[BootsOntheSide]

Jarno's results only improved once Jenson was signed by BAR though - later in the season when Jarno was quicker, the reliability had risen.

In any case, in this context 'hero' was relating to his percievedperformance and ability, not what he was actually achieving (remember that these two are often very different things)

[Stevespurr]

There is that much diference between the teams on the front of the grid and thoose at the back it never will be competetive. You will never get close racing while the cars are not the same as in American racing!

[BootsOntheSide]

Wait a minute Steve. The top 3 in the IRl all use Honda engines - last year the top 3 all used Toyotas. While the racing is undoubtedly closer, more varied and arguably more exciting in the IRL, closer parity doesn't solve every problem - and races with spec chassis/engines are often pretty dull in winged open-wheel cars.

[Rennen]

Originally posted by Glen
Perhaps he didn't notice that the first competition he should have been involved in was with his own team-mate! To CdM there was no competition, because he totally failed to provide any. shame - he looked really good on debut, but I think he just couldn't take the pressure.

OUCH!!!...Spot on 'Glen'...The first person to beat is your team-mate...regardless of how experienced he is.

'Boots' is wrong with his Baumgartner analogy...top teams wouldn't be intested in either Minardi driver IMO...Bruni has been a disapointment.

[BootsOntheSide]

Originally posted by Rennen
OUCH!!!...Spot on 'Glen'...The first person to beat is your team-mate...regardless of how experienced he is.

'Boots' is wrong with his Baumgartner analogy...top teams wouldn't be intested in either Minardi driver IMO...Bruni has been a disapointment.

Rennen, I think you've completely misunderstood me. My point was that, based on what Glen was saying (that beating your team-mate makes you hot property regardless of everything else), he should be a hot property (the point being that the ability of the team-mate has to be consdiered; of course neither Minardi driver belongs any higher up the grid)

As for your first point, experienced team-mates are much harder to beat, especially if they're not past their best. Being fairly even with a driver like Panis (who had 8 years more experience - that's 150-odd races worth of circumstances in which Panis has an advantage in knowing what approach to take) is no disgrace.