Another random qualifying idea

[DavidStHubbins]

Seeing as the FIA (or whatever)seems to be considering such ideas as black magic and three-legged races to determine the starting grid for sundays I thought I would toss in my own thoughts too. What's one more loony idea on a scrap heap of mental?

Feel free to shoot me if someone has already mentioned something similar or that it is pants!

Right!

Friday - 2 x practice sessions
And then a qualifying session of one hour just as it used to be before the one lap thing came in.

Saturday

Practice session again 1 or 2 doesnt matter
And then another qualifying session. Same as on friday, one hour of hotlaps.

At the end of this session the times from friday qualy and saturday qualy are averaged or whatever like they used to do back in the early nineties (I'm not that old so I can't remember when we lost friday qualy...).

THE DIFFERENCE COMES NOW.

POINTS are given for the overall qualifying positions but these two qualifying do NOT create the grid!

Points go from 25, 22,20,18,16,15,14 etc all the way to 1 point for 20th.

THEN, there is another qualifying session which is a one-lap wonder like we have now with the car set-up for the race with tyres and fuel etc. THIS session settles the order for the race on Sunday.

THEN! Points on Sunday for finishing the race roll down from 50 downwards, maybe rewarding the top 10, the top 12 or the top 15. NOT the top 20 though.

Points for the race should always be worth much more than anything else.

I think the points system is something that has changed the least over the last 50 years of F1 racing and the small changes we had from 9-6 etc and then 10-6 etc and then 10-8 etc have not been enough. F1 is so different now and having points for qualifying means the points for the race must be much more. THis means we get huge scores amounting through the year and kinda like NASCAR or CART (not sure about this one) or even MOTOGP.

Big scores would be better and more flexible I think... Maybe it won't be. Who knows?!

Maybe there should also be a certain amount of points for fastest lap too. 5 or 10?

This way we see who the qually kings are and we also get mixed race grids. Teams can decide whether they want to concentrate more on a qually setup than a race setup etc.

One of the many problems I am thinking about right now with this system is the COncord agreement and the points for prizes etc. The whole deal on how teams are paid by Bernie at the end of the season will have to change considering even Minardi will have at least 40 points by the end of the season. Ferrari could have as much as 3000! My maths is not hot but that sounds about right.

What does everyone think?

Not a great deal of thought has gone into this but the general idea has been festering inside my brain for a while.

[Kicking-back]

Far too complicated, I think, and once again I'm not keen on giving points for anything other than race finishing positions.

Good to see someone "thinking outside the box" though

[Nicholosophy]

Originally posted by DavidStHubbins
Not a great deal of thought has gone into this but the general idea has been festering inside my brain for a while.

Probably more thought than BE or Mosley put into the current and new qualifying systems...

[luke]

Welcome NickoGP.

Prihaps Max and Bernie should watch this forum and see the qualifying ideas, much better than the jokes they have recently been comming up with.

Looking back at it all, then '03 qualifying wasn't all that bad.

[DavidStHubbins]

It would be nice to have the old flat-out system back but that needs to be justified. Points are all I can think of.

And the new one-lap thing creates interesting grids and races I feel and I would like it to stay.

My system keeps both and plays with the points system to incorporate it all. The last qualifying session which decides the race could be held on the Sunday morning too therefore spreading the action over the weekend more evenly.

[Nicholosophy]

I guess when you look back to the old system pre-04, it's a double edged sword.

This system was interesting and exciting for those of us who follow F1 religiously. We knew that the teams were plotting something and would try to second guess them. It was a game of cat and mouse in some ways, and pure luck when it would start raining half way though. It was great.

On the other hand, you have the casual F1 watcher, or someone who is attending a GP with friends or who tuned in on the tube as nothing else was on. And they would see nothing for a while. And more nothing. Then a car. Then two cars. Then nothing... You get my drift.

I personally liked the old system. Perhaps to give you the best of both words, give each driver 12 laps, but half must be used before the 30 min mark or you loose them. Least there will be cars on the track for more of the hour.

I guess there is no real perfect solution that will keep EVERYONE happy, but as long as at the end of the day the system is fair and provides a good guide as to who is really driving the fastest car...

Bah! Who am I kidding...

[Russfeld]

Qualifying aint whats wrong with F1

[ralf fan]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DavidStHubbins
[B]
Feel free to shoot me if someone has already mentioned something similar or that it is pants!
[QUOTE]

*Bang Bang*

i wouldnt want such high no. of points being given in qually.... the purpose of qually has always been and should be to set the grid and not for points scoring.. thats left to the race..
a point or two for pole and maybe a point for fastest lap should be enough... the main scoring should be done in the race...

[Nicholosophy]

Well if Qual is simply for determining a grid, why not just draw lots.

Or perhaps they can sit around the table and play poker and as each driver busts out, they get last sport and so on.

Or perhaps a wet t-shirt competition involving the driver's wife/girlfriend/latest bonk.

My point is, yes it determines the grid position, but it traditionally showed who was the fastest driver over one lap, with a chance to get it right. At the moment and with the new system, this isn't the case.

[ralf fan]

the wet t-shirt idea aint bad...

no all i said was the purpose of qually is to determine the starting order by determining the fastest driver... it is not a place to score points... maybe a point for pole is ok...

[DavidStHubbins]

WIth points for all drivers in the friday and sat flatout qually sessions it means that all the drivers have something to go for. From a Ferrari to a Minardi. If points were handed out in this qualifying for only the first person or maybe 5 the lower teams would not bother and would then concentrate all the practice time looking for a race setup. Maybe that's a good thing too!

Russfeld, of course qualifying isn't the only thing wrong with F1 but I am not engineer so this is all I can think of. Let the engineers decide about slicks, downforce etc. I think the qualifying is **** at the moment. And I really fear what is around the corner with respect to qualifying.

What about wife-carrying qualifying around the track? One at a time too or maybe all the drivers out with their wives/gfs/(and boyfriends where applicable) for an hour. Plenty of slip-streaming. I can imagine them running up Eau Rouge now.

MOntoya would win with that little wife of his.

[Russfeld]

But again, qualifying isnt the issue. Its lack of a strong challenge by Ferrari's rivals. Whether its testing, practice, qualifying, or most importantly the bit we watch on TV; the race

[DavidStHubbins]

The last few races saw some competition to Ferrari. The last one in particular.

This isn't meant to solve world hunger or the state of F1 in general, I just reckon the current qualifying system sucks.

Ferrari need to stop testing so much.

[Russfeld]

McLaren and Toyota test just as much. The rest of the teams need to beat Ferrari, not drag them back down to their level. All this time spent coming up with crazy regulation phases (by the team bosses) is just mroe time Ferrari is spending in the wind tunnel

[BootsOntheSide]

Excessive points for qualifying are ridiculous in my view. A system to set the grid is all that is really needed. And the ideal in my view is to simply have something like what Nicko suggests - a one-hour sessionw ith some amount fo run-timing restrictions to ensure that we don't get any quiet spells. However, I'd be content to keep this year's system, as long as the races improve.

[Pingguest]

Originally posted by NickoGP
I guess when you look back to the old system pre-04, it's a double edged sword.

This system was interesting and exciting for those of us who follow F1 religiously. We knew that the teams were plotting something and would try to second guess them. It was a game of cat and mouse in some ways, and pure luck when it would start raining half way though. It was great.

On the other hand, you have the casual F1 watcher, or someone who is attending a GP with friends or who tuned in on the tube as nothing else was on. And they would see nothing for a while. And more nothing. Then a car. Then two cars. Then nothing... You get my drift.

I personally liked the old system. Perhaps to give you the best of both words, give each driver 12 laps, but half must be used before the 30 min mark or you loose them. Least there will be cars on the track for more of the hour.

I guess there is no real perfect solution that will keep EVERYONE happy, but as long as at the end of the day the system is fair and provides a good guide as to who is really driving the fastest car...

Bah! Who am I kidding...

Why only 12 laps? No limitations should be better.

[DougK]

Is ay go back to the old system. 12 laps but only 45 minute session so the cars need to be out there more, and allow them as many tyres as they like for quali. But they must race on the same compound tyres as they used in quali.

Really the cost of tyres is negligable compared to the othe costs of running an F1 Car.

Points for qualifying would encourage teams to go for it and create some element of unpredicatability if the smaller teams went for broke!

[DavidStHubbins]

Points for fastest lap would prevent Montoya giving up and cruising if he can't win. Trulli too and Ralf. Imagine even Schuey 10 seconds ahead of Rubens who wants the points for fastest lap so keeps on it or alternates a fast lap with a slow lap!

[Kicking-back]

12 laps was introduced as a limit partly to stop someone going out and driving round slowly once they'd got pole, in order to block other drivers.

[Pingguest]

Originally posted by Kicking-back
12 laps was introduced as a limit partly to stop someone going out and driving round slowly once they'd got pole, in order to block other drivers.

With 12 laps they could have done the same.