Laguna Seca Officially Canned

[macdaddy]

This, from SpeedTV:

Champ Car confirmed Friday (Jan.21) that it has ended its discussions with Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca...

"...we regret having to exclude the track from our 2005 schedule due to issues of date conflicts and economic issues. It was a very difficult business decision that we had to make for the future health of the series".

"Champ Car will continue to work with Laguna Seca in the future to explore the prospects of a future return".

Surprised? I'm not.

[macdaddy]

TSN.ca is reporting the story as well, but have added this interesting tidbit:

While the September 11 date remains open on the Champ Car schedule, its believed the series was negotiating with organziers for a race in Argentina on that weekend.

[Kicking-back]

Very sad, but inevitable.

[jjspierx]

Yeah, sad in a way. I dunno, I think Laguna Seca is a great track, and the corkscrew is breathtaking, but the track really isn't suited for Champcars. The reason I am saddened by the loss is because of the tradition and history and special moments I've seen occur there.

[carsten66]

... but the door keeps open and that is indeed a good sign that the new CC management works a lot better...

I agree with JJspierx, a great track but the CC racing wasn't thrilling at Laguna Seca,
except one time, remembering Zanardi...

[codename_47]

Well, at least they had the decency to tell us than keep us hanging on for too long.....still a shame though....

I hope it's only a temporary blip rather than a permenant change.....

[JohnSSC]

I disagree about Laguna no longer being interesting. Zanardi was not the only one to make it interesting there - no offense, but there was great racing there and by others long before Alex came to CART.

Al Unser Jr at the top of his game was something to watch, as was Michael, Teo Fabi and others made for some exciting racing there. Certainly there is almost no way that racing on the streets at San Jose could possibly be more interesting or more exciting than a race at Laguna.

Oh well, have Jersey barriers, will travel.

[Amar7605]

Originally Posted by macdaddy

Surprised?

Hell no

But this isn't surprising with San Jose being on the schefdule.

[macdaddy]

I'm thinking that we're losing Laguna, which is sad, but we're about to gain SanJose and Argentina. That's what I'm hoping, anyway.

[Amar7605]

Way to think positive, macdaddy!

[macdaddy]

I'm just reading-between-the-lines of the ChampCar statement mentioned in my opening post.

..due to issues of date conflicts and economic issues.

It didn't occur to me until I read the "Argentina" tidbit in my second post. That's when I (hopefully) put two-and-two together. Why would they even bother to mention "date conflicts" in the first place? This press-release wasn't prepared on the spur of the moment.

Here's what "I" think is going down:

Tres Hombres ain't stupid. They KNOW that alot of true ChampCar fans are going to be peeved over losing RA, MOhio, Laguna... And that's why they wanted to keep Laguna on the schedule. But I think that Laguna was given an ultimatum which included a date change. Whatever it was, it may have conflicted with another series' contract to run on the circuit, a contract that Laguna tried to get out of but ultimately couldn't. Thus they had to cancel the race, with hopes of returning in 2006. Why the date change? Because things in Argentina are looking solid enough to believe a race is going to happen in 2005.

Perhaps I'm wearing rose-coloured glasses. Or perhaps it's the horizon that's rose-coloured, and I'm not wearing glasses.

[indycool]

Don't think you're wearing rose-coloured glasses, macdaddy and I expect there's a lot of truth in what you say. But once CCWS started playing with San Jose, Laguna was toast with the series. It owed $400,000 to OWRS through an asset acquisition of a promissory note to CART from '03. Attendance was down sharply in '04. With all the rhetoric, think that was a foregone conclusion awhile back.

I think all three tracks -- RA. Mid-Ohio and Laguna -- were run out by Pook's screwed-up scheduling. He put Mid-Ohio against Kentucky's IRL race 150 miles down the road. That hurt BOTH races and Pook wouldn't budge for Mid-Ohio, even after the IRL changed Kentucky's date to accommodate different weekends and Pook turned right around and changed Mid-Ohio's date to match up. He screwed around and moved Laguna from its traditional, longtime October date to June and that effectively killed it. And Road America -- well, how many different things? Pretty notably, putting it opposite the EAA Fly-In at Oshkosh.

IMO, those are the reasons for attendance dropping at those quality, traditional sites. As a race fan, would I trade those three venues, which USED to draw extremely well before they got screwed with, for street races in Argentina and San Jose? Not in anyone's wildest dreams. But those horses were long ago "out of the barn."

[Kicking-back]

It's funny.

Laguna Seca was one of the great venues for CART.

But now there's not a race there, people are saying "ah well, it wasn't much good anyway!"

[JohnSSC]

Exactly what I was thinking, K-B!

For a good while on this Forum there were many posts regarding the "loyalty" that had to be shown to CC and it's traditions. There was a great deal of invective towards teams, owners, drivers and folks posting here for not supporting CC over the IRL.

Time and again the tradition, past glory, past drivers, "loyal" owners were held up as the standard which should be upheld, all the while denigrating the traditions surrounding The 500 as now it was in the "other" Series. The 500 being a race and "tradition" that inspired and fueled participation in American open wheel racing in the first place.

So here we have witnessed essentially the dismantling (or dismemberment) of what CART once was and we have a Series that has not carried much with it that we all loved CART so much for.

Now the talk on the Forum is: "Well, Mid-Ohio was a money loser so good riddance, RA was this or that, Laguna Seca wasn't all that interesting (THAT statement is almost ludicrous based on the races I watched on the telly over the years at Laguna), so what about Indy, so what about Michigan, so what about all the cool bullring ovals. We still have CC so more street races at more generic venues is wonderful."

Let me ask this then: If all of these venues weren't that great, if all that history that they represented really isn't worth continuing, what the heck were we so interested in watching then in the first place? Further, how can anyone say that somehow IRL is inferior due to it's breakaway from the "tradition" of CC if CC is not even faithful to what is supposed to be it's own idiom?

[Sparky05]

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

It's funny.

Laguna Seca was one of the great venues for CART.

But now there's not a race there, people are saying "ah well, it wasn't much good anyway!"

Typical of CART fans, in my opinion.

[Kicking-back]

I watch ChampCar and IndyCar races - and have tended to be open minded on the whole thing - but I have to say increasingly IndyCar is evolving into the series which caught my interest in the first place, with a mix of ovals, streets and roads - and the Indy 500.

The split has been nothing but bad for single seater/open wheel racing in the USA - but increasingly the fandom of one or the other seems to be based on little more than a hatred of the other.

[macdaddy]

Well, I guess that I could be sitting here crying in my beer. Reminiscing about the old days, resisting change, and just being all-around miserable.

Or I could accept these things which are happening beyond my control, realize that things are the way they are, deal with that, and look forward to the future.

It's true that CART has a long history. And it is sad that many of our "traditional" courses seem to be falling to the wayside. Things are changing, and they're changing for a reason. If ever I become so disallusioned with ChampCar, there is nobody here holding a gun to my head and telling me that I have to be a fan.

In the meantime, I'm entitled to my own opinions and if they don't match those of others - oh well. Perhaps I can be stereotyped somehow.

[Kicking-back]

Originally Posted by macdaddy

In the meantime, I'm entitled to my own opinions and if they don't match yours - oh well.

Absolutely!

We'd have a very dull forum if everyone agreed on everything

[evo]

I loved CART, but CART is gone. So I watch Champcar and Indycar because together they cover everything I loved about CART... And together there are more cars on the track than thier ever were with only one series. If only sponsors wanted to put thier logos on the sides of cars driven by real racing drivers.

[Amar7605]

True true, evo.

These last few posts have been very interesting, and I do agree with some of the 180-degree attitudes that have happened. And admittedely I have had those attitudes as well.

Having said that, although I am gonna miss Laguna, RA, and Mid-Ohio, the last few races held at these places weren't all that great. And since this is now CCWS and not CART, I am not surprised if what CCWS is really trying to do is trying to distinguish itself from CART, and that means having some new venues while getting rid of some old ones.

This isn't to say that San Jose, Argentina, and Korea are gonna automatically become instant classics, but we can at least hope that the new venues will hold great races and be fan-friendly events. Plus, with CCWS essentially being a new company, I am a suporter of starting new traditions. Don't get me wrong - I will always have a great affection for the old CART tracks, but with CCWS it may be time to start a whole new book, not just another chapter.

[JohnSSC]

Well, I was making an observation, not stereotyping. I will second K-B's comment that diversity of opinion is a good thing. I was simply making an observation based on the opinion(s) stated here.

It just strikes me as ironic that all of that acrimony so fervently written has died down into a sort of resignation insofar as to what CC is becoming. I am not myself, nor am I expecting anyone to be crying in their beer about any racing series - even CC. Yes, things do evolve and change. No, things do not eternally remain the same. This does not mean that one cannot comment on whether her or she finds these changes favorable, neutral or negative in comparison.

[macdaddy]

Nobody said you were stereotyping, John.
Yours are not the only posts being responded to.

[codename_47]

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

I watch ChampCar and IndyCar races - and have tended to be open minded on the whole thing - but I have to say increasingly IndyCar is evolving into the series which caught my interest in the first place, with a mix of ovals, streets and roads - and the Indy 500.

The split has been nothing but bad for single seater/open wheel racing in the USA - but increasingly the fandom of one or the other seems to be based on little more than a hatred of the other.

Well exactly, they've already tried to go their own way (NASCAR lite) and that didn't work for them so now they're looking at copying CART ways of doing things. The lack of originality on their side is comical.

Meanwhile Champcar has to clutch at straws just to stay alive and can only justify running races that bring a profit. So no fans, no money, no race....
The only hope we have left is to build the series up enough to lure people back to the racetracks, and hopefully lure Laguna and Mid Ohio back when the series is strong again....

And now this thread has degenerated into typical IRL fans, posting neutral or downright negative comments in the Champcar forum in a bid to cast a negative light on the series, and using phrases like "typical CART fans...." etc.
But it's ok, because it's all healthy discussion, right?

Bottom line, the lack of Laguna Seca on next years schedule sucks, no doubt about it. But unless a millionaire sponsor turned up in the offseason, Champcar just could not justify losing money on a race there again. (Wouldn't be a walk in the park for Laguna either)
Champcar will now continue building the series to attract fans and sponsers in the hope of returning there in the future, putting on a great race, (see....not all of us say that it's boring... ) and also making a profit.
I look forward to that day....(yes, optimism also a habit of the Champcar fan... )

[Hazza]

All we can do now is remember events like "the pass", Patreek's victory "Crossaints", Herta's first win and PT running 3/4s of a race with out any belts...

[Snrub]

I've ALWAYS said Mid-Ohio was a lousy track for CC. I'm sad to see the loss of Laguna, I'd consider it sort of an in between event. It had a mix of some good races and some kind of dull. Even then there was just something neat about that track, but worse could happen.

It's too bad that some tradition has been lost, but those are the breaks. Indy will have a reduced period of time where they'll be running in 2005, correct? Bump day isn't what it use to be. Just as the OWRS guys could theoretically pay for Mid-Ohio and Laguna, TG could theoretically pay for 40 cars to compete to get on the grid of Indy. It's simply reality and you salvage what you can and move on.

There was a poll on CC's site asking which race we'll miss most. RA had a big margin of victory.