Edmondson and Atherton getting cosy?

**Bentley03** · 4 Nov 2006, 11:03 (Ref:1757672)

I nearly choked on my Corn Flakes this morning. Thought I'd check DSC for news whilst tucking in to my breakfast and came across Janos Wimpffen's report from the SEMA show.

Half way through the report comes the revelation that Roger and Scott have had contact (through intermediaries). I'm sure there were many topics on the agenda, but one of those was this, that Grand Am and the ALMS should run together at the same track, the same weekend, a couple of times a year. One race could be at a 'home' circuit for Grand Am and the other at an ALMS track. Grand Am would race Saturday on one of the weekends and ALMS on the other. There was also the suggestion that there could be a third doubleheader at a neutral circuit.

Fogelhund · 4 Nov 2006, 13:26 (Ref:1757727)

I've had conversations with those intermediaries. It seems certain that those conversations ended some time ago, and were not fruitful.

dj choc ice · 4 Nov 2006, 14:28 (Ref:1757745)

in the name of god i could very well take a baseball bat to both of these men's car's and themselves, grandAM and ALMS should remain separate all that remains along these lines is ruin and the destruction of the ALMS and the grandAM series take it from the fans men DONT DO IT!!!!

WE ARE THE FANS AND WE DONT WANT IT!!!!!!

**Bentley03** · 4 Nov 2006, 14:40 (Ref:1757750)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

I've had conversations with those intermediaries. It seems certain that those conversations ended some time ago, and were not fruitful.

So why did Edmondson mention it at SEMA with no indication of an unfruitful dialogue?

Fogelhund · 4 Nov 2006, 15:09 (Ref:1757757)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj choc ice

in the name of god i could very well take a baseball bat to both of these men's car's and themselves, grandAM and ALMS should remain separate all that remains along these lines is ruin and the destruction of the ALMS and the grandAM series take it from the fans men DONT DO IT!!!!

WE ARE THE FANS AND WE DONT WANT IT!!!!!!

I don't get what you are saying. You don't think fans would like to see Grand Am racing on Saturday, and ALMS on Sunday, or vice versa?

Hugewally · 4 Nov 2006, 15:54 (Ref:1757769)

I think it makes more sense than running with OW...

TWK · 4 Nov 2006, 17:42 (Ref:1757797)

It would be a bad business decision for one of those two "road race" series.

JAG · 4 Nov 2006, 17:48 (Ref:1757799)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj choc ice

in the name of god i could very well take a baseball bat to both of these men's car's and themselves, grandAM and ALMS should remain separate all that remains along these lines is ruin and the destruction of the ALMS and the grandAM series take it from the fans men DONT DO IT!!!!

WE ARE THE FANS AND WE DONT WANT IT!!!!!!

I think you need to have a little confidence in the ALMS product.

If ALMS can share the bill with IRL and Champ Car, I see nothing wrong with a shared bill at Watkins Glen and Mosport for example.

Both series are far, far apart technically wise, so a merger wouldn't even be on the agenda, or even beneficial!

MaxGT40 · 4 Nov 2006, 17:52 (Ref:1757800)

Quote:

I think it makes more sense than running with OW...

I concur. I'd take GA over any of the open wheel snoozefests from a spectator standpoint.

**Bentley03** · 4 Nov 2006, 18:09 (Ref:1757810)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWK

It would be a bad business decision for one of those two "road race" series.

Which one and why, Tom?

chocmonster7 · 4 Nov 2006, 18:33 (Ref:1757829)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj choc ice

WE ARE THE FANS AND WE DONT WANT IT!!!!!!

How about you stop assuming that you speak for everyone around here?

I for one would love a meeting where one series raced on each day of a weekend, it would make a trip over to the US an even more interesting prospect.

thebear · 4 Nov 2006, 21:14 (Ref:1757907)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj choc ice

WE ARE THE FANS AND WE DONT WANT IT!!!!!!

What's this "WE" business? Do you have a mouse in your pocket?

isynge · 5 Nov 2006, 10:38 (Ref:1758173)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj choc ice

in the name of god i could very well take a baseball bat to both of these men's car's and themselves, grandAM and ALMS should remain separate all that remains along these lines is ruin and the destruction of the ALMS and the grandAM series take it from the fans men DONT DO IT!!!!

WE ARE THE FANS AND WE DONT WANT IT!!!!!!

I'm really not sure that it would be such a bad thing. They're sufficiently different beasts and allowing them to exist side-by-side would at least reduce the level of cannibalisation between the two series.

If you like GrandAm could function like GP2 to ALMS' F1. Somewhat slower cars, somewhat cheaper to do, and still decent racing complementing what the big expensive ALMS cars go out and do. Sharing weekends is one step towards sharing the track at some events, and if this ended up with Daytona becoming more than "just" a GrandAm race I think it'd unquestionably be a step forward.

Okay, having two such similar series isn't the ideal logical way forward (look at ChampCar and IRL to say all that needs to be said) but the solution doesn't lie in sitting apart and getting into some sort of "my series is better than yours sort of circular debate".

**Bentley03** · 5 Nov 2006, 10:59 (Ref:1758192)

Quote:

Originally Posted by isynge

I'm really not sure that it would be such a bad thing.

I love the idea. I'm sure politics will ultimately get in the way, but I like the fact that someone has actually tried to make this happen. As Chocmonster said, there would be enough appeal in a doubleheader to make a trip across the Pond very tempting indeed.

HORNDAWG · 5 Nov 2006, 18:18 (Ref:1758409)

O.K. Flame me now!! I would like to see a week of qualifing and then a double header weekend, two classes each day of nothing but GT cars. LMS,ALMS,FIA GT,JLM,GA,BELCAR,BRIT.GT. FR.GT V-8 Supercars etc...call it The WORLD GT CHAPIONSHIP!!

L.P.

The

made me do it!!!

chocmonster7 · 6 Nov 2006, 13:22 (Ref:1759002)

Is it me or are the people who are in Europe (maybe more used to various sportscar series running together?) more pro this idea than a lot of those in the States?

kbeech · 6 Nov 2006, 14:26 (Ref:1759052)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chocmonster7

Is it me or are the people who are in Europe (maybe more used to various sportscar series running together?) more pro this idea than a lot of those in the States?

Probably. A lot of folks following motorsports in the U.S. are a little leary of the France Family/ISC (International Speedway Corp.). Those guys have LOTS of influence with GARRA.

BobN · 6 Nov 2006, 15:24 (Ref:1759095)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbeech

Probably. A lot of folks following motorsports in the U.S. are a little leary of the France Family/ISC (International Speedway Corp.). Those guys have LOTS of influence with GARRA.

Imagine how Euros would feel if Ecclestone were trying to "share" weekends with any of their favorite sportscar series and that should explain why Americans are leary of France/ISC associations with ALMS.

**Bentley03** · 6 Nov 2006, 15:36 (Ref:1759097)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobN

Imagine how Euros would feel if Ecclestone were trying to "share" weekends with any of their favorite sportscar series and that should explain why Americans are leary of France/ISC associations with ALMS.

Bad example BobN, we'd have to pay at least six times the current ticket price to see 'our' series, which is a different issue altogether!

But, for example, I was more than happy to watch the WTCC when they were 'headlining' the FIAGT rounds. It simply reinforced my preference for Sportscar/GT racing.

BobN · 6 Nov 2006, 15:58 (Ref:1759111)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bentley03

Bad example BobN, we'd have to pay at least six times the current ticket price to see 'our' series, which is a different issue altogether!

But, for example, I was more than happy to watch the WTCC when they were 'headlining' the FIAGT rounds. It simply reinforced my preference for Sportscar/GT racing.

Sorry to disagree, but the comparison of Ecclestone to France/ISC is valid. GARRA doesn't have the pull to command F1 style ticket prices any more than WTCC does. That said, would you want Ecclestone coming to town and calling the shots on media, garage space, etc. at an LMS event?

Ever been to an ISC track and have to deal with where you can go and were you can sit?

I went to the FIA GT/IMSA (nee Professional Sportscar) events at Laguna in 1997 & 1998 and loved the events, so I understand the purpose of the shared weekend. I don't see anything in a shared weekend in the ALMS's favor and plenty in GARRA's. Picking who you "share" with is at least as important as where you share.

JAG · 6 Nov 2006, 16:03 (Ref:1759117)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chocmonster7

Is it me or are the people who are in Europe (maybe more used to various sportscar series running together?) more pro this idea than a lot of those in the States?

I guess in Europe we're used to LMS, FIA GT, DTM, Belcar and many other GT/sports series.

**Bentley03** · 6 Nov 2006, 19:40 (Ref:1759317)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobN

Sorry to disagree, but the comparison of Ecclestone to France/ISC is valid.

BobN, I didn't say it wasn't. I just felt that you could have offered a comparison for Europe which was somewhat closer to the Stateside GARRA/ALMS proposal we are discussing, LMS/FIAGT for example.

chocmonster7 · 7 Nov 2006, 13:08 (Ref:1759959)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobN

Imagine how Euros would feel if Ecclestone were trying to "share" weekends with any of their favorite sportscar series and that should explain why Americans are leary of France/ISC associations with ALMS.

I think you'll find a lot of European fans still remember what Bernie & co tried to do to the sportscar scene here in the old GroupC days.

What I'd like to know is how/why people think it will be a bad thing. So far I've only heard excuses about it being terrible because the idea has come from the GrandAm side.

What harm would it actually do to the ALMS to join in with these proposals?

BobN · 7 Nov 2006, 15:08 (Ref:1760069)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chocmonster7

I think you'll find a lot of European fans still remember what Bernie & co tried to do to the sportscar scene here in the old GroupC days.

What I'd like to know is how/why people think it will be a bad thing. So far I've only heard excuses about it being terrible because the idea has come from the GrandAm side.

What harm would it actually do to the ALMS to join in with these proposals?

Already stated. I would not like to see he France/ISC association involved in any fashion with ALMS. I don't like where they have taken NASCAR (C.O.T., the Chase., 35 guaranteed grid spots, no fan access, etc.). I don't care for the slowed down version of sportscars (sorry, I know you are a huge fan, but I am not. It may be close racing, but I don't care for the lack of outright speed offered by the Rolex series vs. ALMS as a headlining series).

I'm sure many disagree (maybe even ALMS management. Although I'm not convinced this proposal is anything other than Roger E's desire), but it is MY opinion that it would ultimately do harm to the ALMS to do business with any series associated with the Frances. As pointed out on another forum by someone else, you are participating on, a joint weekend would give GARRA officials unfettered access to lobby ALMS teams, sponsors and partners to shift their focus to GARRA and away from ALMS. This is an area that I have little faith in NOT happening.

Your favorite series continues to claim growth an is meeting or exceeding its goals. I don't see where sharing weekends (without ulterior motives) is needed to continue that growth.

Bob Riebe · 7 Nov 2006, 16:52 (Ref:1760141)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobN

Your favorite series continues to claim growth an is meeting or exceeding its goals. I don't see where sharing weekends (without ulterior motives) is needed to continue that growth.

Growth, just what the heck does growth mean, to racing these days?

It was not very long ago, growth, or failure was seen in a matter of at most two years, and things were done, correct or incorrect, to change rules to make a series show definite improvement; stagnation was not substituted for growth, much less field becoming smaller over a period of three or more years.

Ignoring NASCAR, and drag racing, the top racing series today are happy if fields are minimum to put on a race, yet all seem to engage in happy talk that the series are doing just fine and tomorrow will finer.

The old saying is bull**** walks, I think some of sanction heads should put on a good pair of knee-high hiking boots as they seem to be having trouble crossing the poopshoot river.
Bob

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