Super Aguri - We can win in 2008

[Redlake27]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/58023

I love this team and its ambition! But an ambition to win in 2008 is, erm, incredible!

Just one flaw. If they are using the 06 Honda in 07, they will presumably have the 07 Honda in 08......................................... Damn!

[Born Racer]

It´s easier to win when you can´t be bothered and/or can´t go to the expense to design your own car.

[FPV GTHO]

Theyre only using the RA106 this year from fear a rebranded RA107 would be too far.

They say that with the lower costs, their smaller workforce should be able to win, but ive always thought that in the case of RBR/STR and Honda/Super Aguri, it'll be the lead teams presumably better strategists, engineers, mechanics etc that'll extract more from an equal package. Super Aguri may well be able to have the pace to win (provided Honda do...) but theres a difference between that and actually winning

[Born Racer]

Regarding what I said, I´d say that I prefer Super Aguri to Toro Rosso because Toro Rosso is primarily a test team. Its existence as part of Red Bull is to help Red Bull in such things as extra votes in team meetings.

That´s not to say the people who work there, such as the mechanics, aren´t a dedicated bunch of racers. It´s such a shame though that one of the 12 team places is taken up by a team who don´t operate independently and just compete for themselves.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Redlake27

Just one flaw. If they are using the 06 Honda in 07, they will presumably have the 07 Honda in 08......................................... Damn!

Maybe they'll get it when it's finally coming good.

And maybe Spyker will buy this years Ferrari chassis!

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

Regarding what I said, I´d say that I prefer Super Aguri to Toro Rosso because Toro Rosso is primarily a test team. Its existence as part of Red Bull is to help Red Bull in such things as extra votes in team meetings.

That´s not to say the people who work there, such as the mechanics, aren´t a dedicated bunch of racers. It´s such a shame though that one of the 12 team places is taken up by a team who don´t operate independently and just compete for themselves.

If im not mistaken, the votes are now limited to a team from each country, and Toro Rosso thus lost their vote to Ferrari.

[BootsOntheSide]

If it means more competitive cars on the grid, I don't mind teams buying the cars of other teams. Historically there was no issue with it.

[Ryan_Briscoe1]

super aguri win in 2008? this guy is off his head. I cant stand super aguri, remember their driver who almost killed other drivers with his crazy driving, what was his name again? (not sato, tho probably fits the description aswell).I completely against super aguri and tossa rossa, unfair on teams like williams and spyker.

[Snrub]

Imagine a situation like when Panis won at Monaco. It's possible that SA could win. I'm not sure why they think heck will freeze in 2008, but clearly they have some of the second best minds working on it.

[Born Racer]

If it means more competitive cars on the grid, I don't mind teams buying the cars of other teams.

I´d also like to see more competitive cars, but only if they´ve achieved that state through the means of building their own cars. There´s enough lack of variation in the cars as it is without more than one team using the same car.

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by Ryan_Briscoe1

super aguri win in 2008? this guy is off his head. I cant stand super aguri, remember their driver who almost killed other drivers with his crazy driving, what was his name again? (not sato, tho probably fits the description aswell).I completely against super aguri and tossa rossa, unfair on teams like williams and spyker.

Yuji Ide was a danger and was swiftly removed.

To paint Sato in the same way is immensely insulting to Taku, I feel.

Nice reasons to hate a team though.

I'd be surprised if Aguri win in 2008. No, I'd be amazed actually. But who can fault ambition? It is nice toi have it around and hopefully this plucky team can pull off the impossible!

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

If it means more competitive cars on the grid, I don't mind teams buying the cars of other teams. Historically there was no issue with it.

Sounds entirely sane to me.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

I´d also like to see more competitive cars, but only if they´ve achieved that state through the means of building their own cars. There´s enough lack of variation in the cars as it is without more than one team using the same car.

But why is building your own car so essential? To ensure the supposed exclusivity of F1?

[chunterer]

Look at their progression in 1 years compared to sister team BAR/Honda over 7 years which has slumped since 2004 (barring the fortuitous win in Hungary last year), then they have reason to be very optimistic.

A tight, well run organisation with people chomping at the bit for success stands a better chance than a overly funded over staffed firm with poor direction and people seemingly in a daze over how to pull themselves out of it.

[Knowlesy]

The corner shop mentality...

[Snrub]

I think customer cars are a good idea, but the whole issue has been handled poorly. Bernie/FIA needed to have some kind of authority over when it happened so as to be fair to all of the teams.

Now that engines are less of a factor that's one major factor neutralized. I think it would make sense for lesser teams to work together in developing their cars. The manufacturers aren't going to go for that, but imagine something like a Williams/Red Bull alliance. With their combined resources and talent they could design a very good car and then field them seperately. I'm not sure if such a thing would ever occur with SA because they receive money from Honda.

I suspect that Toyota/Renault/Honda are going to be looking very closely at their customer engine situation for next year. They are all competing with their customers for points, and Toyota is in the embarasing situation of having a customer with a faster car. I suspect that in 2008 the customer engines from those teams will have a greater difference from the primary team engines. The Japanese manufacturers seem to have a lot of pride and I imagine that Honda in particular finds SA's strength embarassing.

Someone mentioned rumours of Cosworth returning to F1. If the customer engine situation changes I think it would make sense for the non-manufacturer teams to go to Cosworth. If you had Williams, Red Bull, Toro Rosso and Spyker all paying Cosworth for engines, Cosworth would have a significant amount of R&D money to play with. I think a very strong engine could be built.

As it stands Williams is looking terrific this season. As possibly the #4 team, one can only imagine what they would do with an extra $100M at their disposal.

[Born Racer]

But why is building your own car so essential? To ensure the supposed exclusivity of F1?

Here´s one thread with some of my views on the matter:

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...=customer+cars

Nothing to do with exclusivity.

[Ryan_Briscoe1]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Yuji Ide was a danger and was swiftly removed.

To paint Sato in the same way is immensely insulting to Taku, I feel.

Nice reasons to hate a team though.

I don't just hate them for their drivers, but also the fact that they don't make their own cars and then beat other independant teams who build their own cars.

[Born Racer]

As it stands Williams is looking terrific this season.

I feel they may slip back a bit as the season goes on due to resources. It certainly happened last year. But they couldn´t really have had a much better start to the year, could they?

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Ryan_Briscoe1

I don't just hate them for their drivers, but also the fact that they don't make their own cars and then beat other independant teams who build their own cars.

But in reality what real difference does running another chassis offer??

A team still has to fund it, sign 2 decent drivers, engineers and test and all that. It goes back to my earlier point about too many cooks and all that...

If a small team puts together a decent package with a little bit of 'off the shelf thinking', then that's clever in its own right.

Far cleverer in fact than spending loads of dough on designing a fancy car from sratch that doesn't work properly and demoralises everyone in the squad?

There's also a decent argument to suggest Honda will be enjoying watching how this Brackley v SAR battle unfolds over the year!! It may well shape what they dedide on doing in future and who with....

[LampCord]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Yuji Ide was a danger and was swiftly removed.

To paint Sato in the same way is immensely insulting to Taku, I feel.

Nice reasons to hate a team though.

I'd be surprised if Aguri win in 2008. No, I'd be amazed actually. But who can fault ambition? It is nice toi have it around and hopefully this plucky team can pull off the impossible!

Totally agree. Sato has had some 'aggressiveness issues' and some 'errors in judgement' but is usually competent, fairly fast and often fun to watch.

Ide was a different story. He was truly awfull and quite dangerous. To himself, other drivers, pit crews, track workers, fans, anyone that didn't have a concrete wall between themselves and his car.

I think it would be a minor miracle for SA to win but it is CONCEIVABLE that they could finish ahead of Honda's factory team in the points! Now that would be funny!

[Snrub]

My opinion of Sato has drastically improved at SA. You can't find a more motivated driver on the grid. He fights tooth and nail for every inch of road. Some of the drivers in the slow big teams seem to be disillusioned and don't try with everything they've got. When teams are in contention they don't want their drivers doing anything to risk points. F1 would be a lot more interesting with a field full of Satos.

[Ryan_Briscoe1]

Originally Posted by chunterer

But in reality what real difference does running another chassis offer??

A team still has to fund it, sign 2 decent drivers, engineers and test and all that. It goes back to my earlier point about too many cooks and all that...

If a small team puts together a decent package with a little bit of 'off the shelf thinking', then that's clever in its own right.

Far cleverer in fact than spending loads of dough on designing a fancy car from sratch that doesn't work properly and demoralises everyone in the squad?

There's also a decent argument to suggest Honda will be enjoying watching how this Brackley v SAR battle unfolds over the year!! It may well shape what they dedide on doing in future and who with....

I think you'll find the design of the chassis is a huge factor in the future performance of the car. Its a question of fairness for me. Williams and Spyker do the right thing and build their own car, as opposed super arguri and tossa rossa who buy their chassis from other teams. Its simly not fair for the other teams.
If a team wants to enter f1 then it should enter f1 with its OWN car. Its unfair on williams and syker who do the right thing and build their own car. How can customer car teams expect to receive constructor points when they didn't actually construct the cars themselves, they brought it from another team.

[Hugh Jarce]

I have to say - I agree with Ryan.

Constructors points should go to 'constructors'.

Perhaps we should introduce 'spongers' points for those who want to buy, not design their way.

[FPV GTHO]

Spyker and Williams wont give a damn though when its their turn to interpret the rules for their benefit