JGTC to visit Laguna Seca

[KC]

Nothing is confirmed, but the Autobacs All Japan GT Series appears poised to announce a race, most likely a demonstration round, on the west coast of America in 2004. Presumably this would be at Laguna Seca.

Cool!

[Lee Janotta]

Yuck.

[pirenzo]

????
JGTC at Laguna Seca? Yuck?
Why do you think that?

[Lee Janotta]

It's such a fake GT series, it's all fixed in favor of Japanese manufacturers. The technical regulations make no sense, most of the cars are silohuetes... It's more like NASCAR than a proper GT series.

If you just want good road racing, regardless of the fairness of the rules, we've already got Speed World Challenge, which is fantastic but doesn't make much sense from a technical standpoint either. But then, it doesn't pretend to be a real GT series, which JGTC does.

Plus even NASCAR drivers could probably drive rings around the JGTC field in the same cars. How can the Japanese produce good motorcycle riders, yet fail so completely on four wheels (Nakano, Matsu****a, Katyama, need I go on?).

[pirenzo]

I don't care, they make good racing.

[carbsmith]

Hmmmmmmm...
Comas
Hatori (drove in CART in '99; not to be confused with the one in the IRL who ran the Laguna Seca CART race in 99)
Lyons
Firman last year
Katayama was in F1
Sebastien Phillipe (2000 Japanese F3 champ)
\Wayne Gardner (ex bike)
Michael Krumm
not bad to me!
Team Owners
Nakajima (ex F1)

[kmchow]

That is sooo cool. It sounds almost dreamy. Hmmmm, maybe I will plan a trip down to Laguna in '04.

[Lee Janotta]

Well, y'know, you guys go ahead and enjoy it, I won't try and spoil your fun so long as that **** series doesn't try and ruin anything I enjoy.

It's just not for me.

[KC]

It is called the All Japan GT Series, I think it favors Japanese marques because of that. Still, there ar eteasm that campaign Porsches, Ferraris, Vipers, a McLaren and a Lamborghini.

Personally I like the series. It has ways of evenign the playing field for all teams, not just catering to the top few mega budgets. The ALMS might be able to learn something from a series like this without resorting to the methodology of Grand Am.

[Lee Janotta]

Ugh, KC, please don't even suggest that. You're making me ill...

Toyota gets all the breaks from the officials, Nissan and Honda get a lot too... While the non-Japanese cars are, well, screwed.

Applying that sort of methodology to LeMans, artificially equalizing the field, goes against everything endurance racing is supposed to be. It's supposed to be based on weight, displacement, and proper homologation of vehicles for competition. LeMans is always about manufacturers competing against one another, whether they run factory teams or just sell cars to privateers.

[RacingManiac]

I'd hardly say Katayama is bad......he DID ran the fastest lap at Le Mans 1999 under race condition after 22 hours of racing, faster than Brundle, McNish and all the other "big shot".....

But yes, JGTC is a poor excuse for a GT series....the whole reason why the folks in the states are so into getting it is nothing more than fad brought by the video games....

[nsxr]

thanks i put a thread up like this if there was a jgtc clone in the us glad to see i'm not alone the jgtcc is far then anything else outside the alms. there title in both divisions went to the last race the gt500 was decided by 1 point the fia was a scam labre wasnt that competitiveand they won the title funn i say this i'm a labre fan! this is good racing and who cares if the porsche teams arent listened too its because of porsche we lost the m3 gtr so f**k off porsche fans when anyone tries something in gts there hated the old gurad needs to come down and shut up oh rice rockets forever!

[carbsmith]

Funny how Hatori nearly won 2 races in a McLaren when they are screwed...
(Cut a tire at Fuji for one)
It would be nice to get rid of the weight penalties. They don't seem necessary (if you saw the packs at the first race other than Firman you'd understand), and they make for silly games near the end of the season (They where letting people past at MIne, to keep their wait down for the last race! Firman lost the championship because his teammate dropped one spot too many!)

[IanGrohse]

Originally posted by Lee Janotta
It's such a fake GT series, it's all fixed in favor of Japanese manufacturers. The technical regulations make no sense, most of the cars are silohuetes... It's more like NASCAR than a proper GT series.

If you just want good road racing, regardless of the fairness of the rules, we've already got Speed World Challenge, which is fantastic but doesn't make much sense from a technical standpoint either. But then, it doesn't pretend to be a real GT series, which JGTC does.

Plus even NASCAR drivers could probably drive rings around the JGTC field in the same cars. How can the Japanese produce good motorcycle riders, yet fail so completely on four wheels (Nakano, Matsu****a, Katyama, need I go on?).

Why do people call assert that they are silohetts? People also say they are "Tube frame".........They are just as, if not more aligned with their road going origins as a GTS LeMans car.

Firstly, they are NOT tube frame. They utilise the original unibody on cars that originally came with them. Just because the roll cage is engineered to enhance structural ridgity, that doesnt make it a tube frame car. THAT can not be said for LeMans GTS cars, they dont even start with a real car!! They rather build a brand new car, using ONLY the two hydroformed frame rails(in the case of the Viper GTS-R and C5r)........then build a new tube frame design, with a carbon fiber body work.

The only GT500 car that doesnt use the factory equiped engine is the Supra, which uses a 3sgte, a road car engine that widely used by Toyota.

So, I dont understand how they are basicly silohetts.

[carbsmith]

The Corvette does use the same basic suspension layout (not geometry or anything, but...), and the Viper isn't Hydroformed. They keep the bulkheads too, I believe.
Incidentally Fukuyama (hehe) drives a 911 in AJGT, and has run a few NASCAR races. Considering he'd never stock car or oval driven before last year:
He finished 8 laps down at Dover (Wait!!!!)
-lost 4 from lack of pit strategy (its oval racing)
-went 2 down that many full timers did too on pace
-spun losing one lap (stayed on track and out of wall)
-lost the last lap near the end of the race
Pretty good to me. The NASCAR guys have road raced before an wouldn't do that good. (Consider how mauch easier it is to lose a lap in oval racing)

[nsxr]

oh yeah how you diss the world challenge man that was great racing. better then the btcc a PROPER racing series that hed more manufactories competiting then two series in europe so what do you call good racing the grand-am come its the first good series we've got in this country so stop your complaining sheeeesssh

[neilap]

I have been following the JGTC for about 4 years now. I think is some of the most action I have ever seen on a racetrack. Its not worth the comparisons with the ALMS. The racing is more like GT cars running in an endurance format. The weight penalties are a good idea. If they were not there then Firman may have run away with last season the way he did in the first race.

If they come to Laguna I may have to schedule a vacation around that time. It will definitely be worth it.

I don't think the racing is biased either. Honda, Toyota and Nissan are all factory backed. The other teams are privately run. Thats why they are not as competitive.

For a fan of Japanese cars this is the ultimate racing.

[carbsmith]

He ran away with 2 other races later though (Malaysia and Suzuka; I probably explained Suzuka above though)

[RacingManiac]

Originally posted by IanGrohse

The only GT500 car that doesnt use the factory equiped engine is the Supra, which uses a 3sgte, a road car engine that widely used by Toyota.

They switched it for weight distribution purpose, which basically was like altering the designing principle of the original car. Changing the character of the car as a whole as a GT car, which is supposed to be road car based.....much like why M3GTR is not adhering to the spirit of the rule....

BTW, Nissan was also not using stock RB26DETT, only 2002 season though, they used the R34 as a development mole for their new VQ30DETT based motor....

I have nothing against weight penalizing system in series like JGTC of FIA-GT, but the idea of making cars that's in actuality much more than it is(and at the same time pulling something much higher up DOWN to the level of the others)....

[RacingManiac]

Here is something even wierder, one of the JGTC Supra team will dump the 2 liter 4 banger(which is not exactly the average MR2 unit, rather the WRC developed version...), in favor of a 5.2 liter, normally aspirated V8......

And about the far away from stock nature, the NSX next season(or this season, rather), will run longitudinal mounted engine compare to the transverse unit in the stock car....

[RacingManiac]

source: http://www.jgtc.net/race/news_en/2003n/030308_01.htm

BTW, a "Vemac 350R", which was the GT300 class race version of one of those low volume sportscar that's in Japan, will run a Zytec 3.4 liter V8 and in GT500 class....I am guessing this has connection to the 675 motor and also has some relation to the DBA4-03S? Since that car is Japanese backed and use the same motor....

[IanGrohse]

Originally posted by RacingManiac
Here is something even wierder, one of the JGTC Supra team will dump the 2 liter 4 banger(which is not exactly the average MR2 unit, rather the WRC developed version...), in favor of a 5.2 liter, normally aspirated V8......

And about the far away from stock nature, the NSX next season(or this season, rather), will run longitudinal mounted engine compare to the transverse unit in the stock car....

What do you mean is not exactly the average MR2 unit? Its a fairly standard 3sgte.....Same block, head, crank. Normal mods like rods, pistons, valves, turbo that is done on all race engines.

They arents changing for reasons of problems or advantage, but rather to have a basis on which to test the new breed of Toyota performance engine.....and while the 3sgte will continue to be produced in upcomming cars, its performance and prowess is tried and true.

The essensce of changing the nature of the balance of the Supra is no more extreme than changing the layout of the drivetrain in a C5R(shifting engine possition, and changing location of transmission)(not that JGTC cars dont do this as well), changind the demensions(wheelbase, track, height), etc.......


I admit, that going from a 2JZ-GTE I-6 to a 3sgte I-4 is not in the spirit of the road car, nevertheless, this is one car out of 6, and never did anyone say GT racing had to mean they had to be exactly like the road car variants.

[RacingManiac]

C5R's original design was different from the stock drivetrain by having the gearbox to behind the engine. The current layout with the transaxle was actually the stock Vette's layout....

Fairly stock in the sense that yes it is from a stock block, but the engine have seen years of racing duty in the WRC Corolla, which is where they sourced it from.....

[neilap]

How will the JGTC enable the NSX's bored out 3.5 to compete with Toyotas new v8? What is Toyota thinking anyway? Maybe they are goning to add 200kg to the car.

[Burd]

My, what a fascinating subject. There's an article about this very topic on the front page of motorsport.com right now...

http://www.motorsport.com/magazine/f...g&D=2003-03-10