LM24 Race McNish and Rockenfeller Accidents

The Badger · 11 Jun 2011, 23:06 (Ref:2896214)

Looking at the accident ..... I reckon one of the issues is the increased height of the front wheel arch , due to the increased diameter of the front tyre .

You cant see **** outta the window , never mind the side window .

To be honest , Im not sure I agree with this type of prototype design .

I dont blame Nishy , nor do I blame the Ferrari ..... I understend McNish saw a gap , went for it , didnt see the Ferrari , bang .

McNish doesnt normally make mistakes .

I dont think the fwd wheel arch is safe is my point .

beau1 · 12 Jun 2011, 03:15 (Ref:2896382)

Just McNish's mistake I'm afraid. Shouldn't have attempted to pass his team and the Ferrari into the corner.

Dead-Eye · 12 Jun 2011, 03:46 (Ref:2896408)

50/50 I'd say. McNish couldn't see the Ferrari in front of his teammate, Beltoise couldn't see McNish behind the Audi. The definition of a racing incident.

Purist · 12 Jun 2011, 03:53 (Ref:2896422)

I'm not so sure McNish had no idea the Ferrari was there. Wouldn't he have seen the GT up ahead as it went through the chicane some distance in front of the other Audi? Therefore, wouldn't he have known what his teammate was slowing for?

And aside from all that, apart from the pit straight, there is NOWHERE on that circuit where it is advisable for someone to even attempt a double pass on two other cars that are fully on the track.

Finally, of course, I don't think any GT driver would have even dreamt that a prototype, much less an Audi, much less McNish himself, would even try a move like that at that point.

Bonanza · 12 Jun 2011, 10:16 (Ref:2896817)

as Martin Haven pointed out, Mcnish''s accident is justificiation for using closed top prototypes. All LMPs should be closed for safety and aesthetics IMO. (This is also means no need for rule balancing etc etc). If Mcnish was in last year's car, things could have been very different.

davyboy · 12 Jun 2011, 10:30 (Ref:2896835)

That was a real close one... a little bit higher and there could have been unthinkable consequences for those standing the other side of that barrier. Very lucky incident indeed.

JAG · 12 Jun 2011, 11:08 (Ref:2896891)

It was McNish's fault, it's a tricky place to pass at the best of times, let alone in the first hour when coming through backmarkers.

It also shows coupes should be mandatory, they offer so much added protection, and apart the AMR-One and Zytek, each manufactuer appears to be going that direction.

As for the track, gravel beds only work in slow sections, at speed they tend to launch a car or flip it over. A large tarmac run-off with no out seide kerb would have seen the R18 scrub off plenty of speed.

Flat12-Aircool · 13 Jun 2011, 02:34 (Ref:2897720)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAG

As for the track, gravel beds only work in slow sections, at speed they tend to launch a car or flip it over. A large tarmac run-off with no out seide kerb would have seen the R18 scrub off plenty of speed.

That only stands-up in the dry, in the wet you can't beat a bit of gravel for slowing down a car.

As I see it, the main problem was the almost Ski-jump like profile to the gravel trap just before the wall of tyres.

Rennen · 16 Jun 2011, 17:48 (Ref:2900414)

[QUOTE=JAG;2896891]It was McNish's fault, it's a tricky place to pass at the best of times, let alone in the first hour when coming through backmarkers.

It also shows coupes should be mandatory, they offer so much added protection, and apart the AMR-One and Zytek, each manufactuer appears to be going that direction.
QUOTE]

Ah! Yes, Coupes are safer, but Coupes (in Carbon) are cost prohibitive! That's why smaller teams like Prodrive opted for an open car!

The Badger · 12 Jun 2011, 11:07 (Ref:2896888)

Its a vision issue I think ..... you cant see past the front wheel arch , big front tyres this year .

Speed-King · 12 Jun 2011, 11:24 (Ref:2896920)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Badger

Its a vision issue I think ..... you cant see past the front wheel arch , big front tyres this year .

IIRC the Acura-drivers had the same problem with the ARX-02...

JAG · 12 Jun 2011, 11:54 (Ref:2896960)

Visibility will be an issue in any racing car, it's for such reasons you don't make moves like McNish did.

Audi drivers have pushed this race, and made mistakes, the kind of mistakes Peugeot were castigated for in previous years.

dxk1 · 12 Jun 2011, 16:06 (Ref:2897173)

They lower horsepower, they regulate weight, they slow refueling, etc. Why don't they regulate visibility? Make sure all drivers can see what's in front of them and what's behind them. I agree with some of the previous comments, it was just hard for McNish to see the Ferrari and it was difficult for the Ferrari to see McNish. Lucky no one was killed or seriously injured.

DK

deggis · 12 Jun 2011, 18:08 (Ref:2897292)

Ullrich: "I don't think that the accidents were related to visibility."

Pandamasque · 16 Jun 2011, 08:24 (Ref:2900011)

Quote:

Originally Posted by PascaLM

Another possible explanation ? Anthony Beltoise (Ferrari) saw only the Audi n°1 in his mirrors. So he decided to follow the two Porsche on the inside of the curve (a Felbermayr and the Prospeed) in order to free the outside line for the n°1. He didn't see McNish suddenly overtaking the n°1.

I think you are spot on. Around the outside is more normal lapping practice for prototypes in that long right hander. So he checked his mirrors, the Audi is clearly waiting for him to turn in, he turns in, there comes another Audi.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightStalk3r

Bergmeister and Westbrook suggesting that the ACO should ban LED headlights, Bergmeister even suggesting they probably did play a role in Rocky's crash.

This is a short clip of an RLM interview with C. Klien before the race: mp3 (right click 'save as')
Bottom line, if you're in a GT car you can't see anything in the mirrors, stick to your line and let the faster car do the overtaking.... or crash into you at 200mph.
Now, the kink is flat out in a GTE car. However, if you don't take the perfect line through it you end up turning too sharply right over the brow, and then the rear goes light, and this happens http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qa88c...layer_embedded (jump to 0:40)
So Kaufmann while being blinded by the furiously flashing lights in his mirrors had these options:
1. stay on the left, flat out and risk losing it at 290+ kph
2. stay on the left, lift off and risk being rear-ended by a storming Audi that's somewhere out there approaching him flat out
3. do as he'd been told in the driver briefing and stick to his line
He'd chosen the last option, nearly got killed by one of the works maniacs AND got excluded from the race. What a travesty. I'm not even going to mention the most ridiculous ever reasoning that came in the official message about the exclusion.

IMO, after that Thursday's overtake by Tom K. round the outside in Karting flatout through the runoff, both Ulrich and Quesnel (just in case) should have been taken by their collars, dragged to the race director and told off like naughty schoolboys. That would prevent both of the Audi accidents, the constant corner cutting and dangerous lapping by Audi and perhaps Peugeot's ignoring the blue flags too.
Instead ACO had spent the whole event spreading their legs as wide as possible.

PS:
luckily nobody got killed this time. But I find it sad that the general spin in the media is:
1. these gentlemen drivers don't know what they're doing
2. bravo Audi for building such safe cars
So these to accidents actually are very good PR for Audi. Incredible.

Toto87 · 12 Jun 2011, 17:59 (Ref:2897281)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZ80Nd1PyfU

That's the most scary crash I have seen so fa. We were all worried about the marshals & photographers...

**Adam43** · 12 Jun 2011, 19:04 (Ref:2897336)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Badger

McNish doesnt normally make mistakes.

It isn't unknown.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dxk1

Interesting that Ulrich should say that since he wasn't driving the car and yet McNish and the Ferrari driver (sorry I can't remember his name) both said/implied they did not see the other car.

DK

It is ourageous that the Audi team boss offered an opinion on this

Anyway, I blame Peugeot.

It seemed a little risky considering the point of the race.

deggis · 12 Jun 2011, 22:13 (Ref:2897605)

Q & A: McNish on his huge crash
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92271

JAG · 13 Jun 2011, 00:53 (Ref:2897679)

Crash from another angle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djX3AHHJyrQ

**joeb** · 13 Jun 2011, 01:10 (Ref:2897684)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAG

Crash from another angle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djX3AHHJyrQ

Wow, great shots of the car. McNish is a lucky man.

Try Hard · 13 Jun 2011, 09:10 (Ref:2897854)

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeb

Wow, great shots of the car. McNish is a lucky man.

McNish I'm afraid wasn't that lucky... he had a whacking strong safety cell around him to protect him from his mistake. (and, IMO, it clearly was his mistake, his team mate had slowed up already, and given room... they could have both got through behind the corner behind the Ferrari)

The photographers and marshals there are the lucky ones... it's clear to see that catching the tyre barrier ment the car spun back onto the gravel. I dread to think what would have happened if it had been a few inches higher...

AUSRSR · 13 Jun 2011, 03:23 (Ref:2897729)

Scary scary shunt. I thinkt he prototype drivers need to learn that the GT cars won't just move over if you dive in from along way back, they need to be a bit more patient I believe.

Glad they're all OK

ensign14 · 13 Jun 2011, 06:15 (Ref:2897763)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allan McNish

I put it down to one of these racing incidents.

Like Hamilton-Maldonado?

Do as I say, comrade...

Audi Racer · 13 Jun 2011, 06:35 (Ref:2897771)

nvm

marcosgt · 13 Jun 2011, 07:14 (Ref:2897790)

What was amazing to me was the way the car seem to bound for the photographers and then miraculously seemed to spin back on to the track side of the barrier.

Did some of the suspension catch on the barrier or something?

Le Mans was VERY lucky not to see some fatalities this weekend.

Great race overall, but that would have REALLY taken the shine off...

M

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