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25 Oct 2012, 20:42 (Ref:3157675) | #1 | |
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Unfinished Business at Le Mans...
I have to thank forumer J.C. for the topic which he brought up in another thread - the topic of a manufacturer having 'unfinished business at Le Mans'.
Some marques and some teams had some success at La Sarthe and, like Matra, quit on the spot having achieved what they wanted to. Others weren't so lucky, and toiled for years without getting their reward. Toyota really spring to mind for me as having put a lot into the race but really having unfinished business with the place. The late-great Bob Wollek never won the race. Some manufacturers were considered Le Mans greats but have not been back to add to their history (hello Ford). Next year will mark 30 years since Ferrari and Alfa Romeo last competed at the race in a full works capacity. Some choose to dine out on their past success (Mazda). So just a bit of a general discussion thread - who has proved their point and who maybe needs to come back. |
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25 Oct 2012, 21:11 (Ref:3157692) | #2 | ||
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I'd chuck all the Japanese manufacturers into the mix, but you're absolutely right about Toyota, I recall in the early 2000s talking to someone very connected to McLaren and them saying that while they were very worried about Toyota coming to F1, the fact that they'd never won Le Mans gave them grounds to think Toyota might not roll all before them.
I guess there are a couple of nuances to a thread like this Unfinished business carries with it the implication that business could be finished. So for all that I'd have loved to see Vic Elford have a Le Mans victory under his belt, that's not going to happen now, so probably not a candidate for this. Aston Martin is a realistic candidate. Looking back over old Le Mans DVDs I'm struck by how the Nimrod campaign had a lot more promise than it felt like at the time, and then subsequent attempts, right up to last year's debacle, have consistently promised a lot, but never quite got there. On a driver front there's a whole French generation who suffered from Peugeot's relative under achievement at Le Mans - so Minassian, Sarrazin, Bourdais, Montagny, etc all could legitimately feel they have a reason to come back and get the result they might well figure they should have had. Sure there are plenty more to chuck in. |
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25 Oct 2012, 21:30 (Ref:3157696) | #3 | ||
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On the driver front, Mario Andretti comes to mind, although like Ian's comment about Vic Elford, it's clearly business that will not now be finished.
Michael Schumacher? |
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25 Oct 2012, 21:43 (Ref:3157707) | #4 | |||
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Bringing things into the realm of the possible, Yves Courage should have won in 1995, in providing the Pescarolo C60H's DNA should have done so again in 2005, seeing something come back together for him for a run in 2015 would be highly welcome. |
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26 Oct 2012, 19:10 (Ref:3158166) | #5 | |||
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A marque i'm surprised nobody has mentioned is Aston Martin. I can think of 3 top class "era's" of their Le Mans anticipation, and very much like Mercedes, only 1 victory has been produced, and too many near misses and failures. (This is overall victory only of course). Peugeot, I still feel has unfinished business at Le Mans. They got the job done in the 90's but the quick closure of the program says to me there must still be Le Mans dreams in the company! |
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25 Oct 2012, 23:15 (Ref:3157728) | #6 | |
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Nissan so close, so far away
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26 Oct 2012, 07:24 (Ref:3157840) | #7 | ||
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Renault - really should be there
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26 Oct 2012, 10:08 (Ref:3157910) | #8 | ||
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Intriguing, I'd almost classify Renault as a classic case of job done.
They came in with a clear objective (i.e. "win"), ramped up to the point where they did it, and then closed the programme down and went off to F1. Clearly it's a long time ago, and I utterly agree that they'd massively benefit from being there, but is there a niggle in Viry Chatillon that Le Mans didn't give them what they wanted? I'm not so sure. |
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26 Oct 2012, 13:11 (Ref:3157984) | #9 | |||
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Others to consider: Chrysler Cadillac |
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26 Oct 2012, 10:26 (Ref:3157919) | #10 | |
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I wonder what role having achieved a victory in the past plays when it comes to planning a return?
On the one hand you have the history and prestige to tap into for marketing and PR, but having won it if you come back people will expect you to do it again. Plus the additional pressure that comes with being French in the case of Renault. I'd hope they don't feel in 2012 like they've proven their point in endurance racing via the exploits of the late 70's. |
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26 Oct 2012, 10:33 (Ref:3157922) | #11 | ||
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The first team and name that sprung to mind is Pescarolo for me. I still have a feeling that Pescarolo isn't dead.
If my number's come up, the first thing I'd do is become an investor of Pescarolo. Someone said Alfa Romeo and I think this is a good point. Despite many genuine attempts in terms of design and assembly to improve their reputation of unreliablity, Alfa just can't shake it off that reputation. Surely a Le Mans 24 hours win would be massive for them. Especially if they beat Audi, with whom they compete with their saloons and smaller cars...and Porsche, with whom they compete at the top of their range! Wishful thinking there though, I don't think Alfa has the money to do it. Also, the thinking in Milan seems to be "sod the reputation, let's just make sportscars again". |
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26 Oct 2012, 10:55 (Ref:3157932) | #12 | |||
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Quote:
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5 Nov 2012, 19:14 (Ref:3162999) | #13 | |||
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Quote:
http://editorial.autos.msn.com/artic...mentid=1159392 |
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26 Oct 2012, 10:54 (Ref:3157931) | #14 | ||
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Eddie Irvine said it was unfinished business , but I cant see him returning now .
Nissan obviously ..... Toyota , but their tryin . Be great to see Ferrari , Maseratti or Lancia make a return ..... but sadly it wont be with a V12 with the rules as they are . |
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26 Oct 2012, 12:28 (Ref:3157960) | #15 | ||
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One word - Mercedes (although briefly mentioned above).
Two words - Hugh Chamberlain! |
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You're either at Le Mans, or waiting for Le Mans. ('86, '87, '88, '89, '90, '91, '93, '94, '95, '97, '98, '00, '01, '02, '03, '04, '05, '06, '07, '08, '09, '10, '11, '12, '13, '14, '15, '16, '17) |
26 Oct 2012, 18:27 (Ref:3158141) | #16 | |
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5 Nov 2012, 16:22 (Ref:3162947) | #17 | ||
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26 Oct 2012, 18:33 (Ref:3158144) | #18 | |
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Would really just be nice to see them back at the race in any capacity. Given they haven't set foot in the place since '99.
Despite winning the race twice, with everything else that's gone on you can't say the race has been kind to them. |
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26 Oct 2012, 23:52 (Ref:3158274) | #19 | ||
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Maybe echoing Ginger's point in a way, Peugeot should feel monumentally aggrieved that there isn't a good documentary record of their win - I can't bring myself to sit through the 2009 video and surely they should feel they need to have a "Truth in 24" like story told about them - perhaps a Luc Besson effort in the style of Michel Vaillant?
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27 Oct 2012, 14:22 (Ref:3158498) | #20 | |
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Might be nice to see Lamborghini begin some business at Le Mans at some point.
They've not achieved enough to call anything unfinished. Perhaps the new GT regs going forward will allow them to come back with Reiter and a decent effort. |
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27 Oct 2012, 14:26 (Ref:3158500) | #21 | ||
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Ferrari also got unfinished overall-victory business at Le Mans, in the way, that they used to be such an essential piece at Le Mans.
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27 Oct 2012, 14:31 (Ref:3158504) | #22 | |
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27 Oct 2012, 14:42 (Ref:3158511) | #23 | ||
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Would love to see Ferrari/ Alfa-Romeo back at Le Mans, but it's not likely while Di Montezelemo is the boss. No programmes in any major series apart from F1. So no WEC, WTCC, DTM, WRC, etc which I think is a mistake.
And as a Rallyfan, I'd like to see Loeb win there, Sportscars should be his future, not sleep inducing WTCC cars. |
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27 Oct 2012, 23:08 (Ref:3158712) | #24 | ||
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Ford.
Brundle. Toyota. Ferrari. Lots of Peugeot drivers, for various reasons. Porsche. BENTLEY! Enough to be going on with? Oh of course not.... Dunlop. Last edited by Tim the Grey; 27 Oct 2012 at 23:13. Reason: Tyres. |
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28 Oct 2012, 07:25 (Ref:3158847) | #25 | |||
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They've gotten the wins they wanted when they had full programs . But i'll add Nissan to the list. They've had several hits at Le Mans, but no Champagne yet! |
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Hvil i Fred Allan. (Rest in Peace Allan) |
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