No driver orders at Mclaren?/McLaren under investigation

[Paulc]

Is Ron Dennis having a laugh suggesting that there are no driver orders at Mclaren,Hamilton was way quicker than Alonso towards the closing stages at Monaco and obviously backed off.I think Dennis wanted to play mind games with the other teams and have his two guys at the top of the drivers champ, it also looks good for the sponsors.No wonder Hamilton was looking so miffed at the press conference!.

[Inigo Montoya]

Hmmm perhaps Alonso also backed off, no? Really, this team orders controversy is tiring.

[Knowlesy]

It's an entirely pointless debate. But pretend you are the McLaren team boss in that situation. Running 1-2, comfortable, 18 points in the bag. All the stops are done, ticking off the final laps. Do you let Hamilton have a go at Alonso? Is that intelligent? Around Monaco?

No. Besides Alonso backed off and that is the only reason Lewis got close. We saw clearly today who was quickest and the quickest guy won. The result was justice to the drivers and McLaren.

There is nothing to get excited about really.

[Paulc]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

It's an entirely pointless debate. But pretend you are the McLaren team boss in that situation. Running 1-2, comfortable, 18 points in the bag. All the stops are done, ticking off the final laps. Do you let Hamilton have a go at Alonso? Is that intelligent? Around Monaco?

No. Besides Alonso backed off and that is the only reason Lewis got close. We saw clearly today who was quickest and the quickest guy won. The result was justice to the drivers and McLaren.

There is nothing to get excited about really.

No way, Hamiltons lap times came down considerably when he was catching Alonso and then went up,what I am getting at is that RD says no team orders and likes to make out hes guys are racers,but again drab modern F1 tactics ruin the day.Do you remember the good old days Senna mansell at Monaco RACING..........................they used to do that once

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Paulc

.Do you remember the good old days Senna mansell at Monaco RACING..........................they used to do that once

Errr, would that be the days when Senna was in a McLaren and Mansell in a Williams? I can just imagine Ron walking down to Frank's garage and asking him to ask Nigel not to race Ayrton

Fernando had Lewis covered all race, was plenty fast enough upto and including the second pit stops then slowed down, there was no way Lewis would have got past.

I point you to the 2003 race, Juan Pablo in a Williams, Kimi in a McLaren and Michael in a Ferrari, Juan Pablo slowed the pace towards the end of the race, effectively pushing Kimi back into Michaels clutches yet still neither driver could get past him.

But just imagine Ron said, ok guys, race one another and Lewis took himself and Fernando out? Championships have been lost on far less than 18 points.

Sure Lewis would have been disappointed not to win yesterday, but when he watches the race again (proberbly already done so) he will realise that he didn't have a chance because Fernando was too strong for him yesterday.

[Inigo Montoya]

Originally Posted by Paulc

...but again drab modern F1 tactics ruin the day.Do you remember the good old days Senna mansell at Monaco RACING..........................they used to do that once

http://www.grandprix.com/ft/ftdt047.html

[Steevp]

Ron just said they decided in advance thet Alonso would win.

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2007/...nso_would_win/

The definition of team orders..

[marcel82]

Originally Posted by Steevp

Ron just said they decided in advance thet Alonso would win.

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2007/...nso_would_win/

The definition of team orders..

technically, what he said was:

if there had been a SC, Hamilton would've won
if there was no SC, Alonso would've won

that was their "strategy"

[deejay]

Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya

http://www.grandprix.com/ft/ftdt047.html

Love the second to last paragraph.

Originally Posted by grandprix.com in 2002

Since then there have been a couple of occasions when Barrichello has helped Schumacher but not one which resulted in handing over a victory.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

There is nothing to get excited about really.

Never a truer word spoken (sums it all up for me anyway).

[JeremySmith]

From my perspective I believe the Lewis could have caught Fernando, but to be on the safe side RD told them not to fight it out..Which in one way is not racing really! On the other hand at a circuit like Monaco a one and a two finish is better than the wall....There is nothing to get excited about really, as Knowlesy says...In fact why did I post this I have just repeated your thoughts, excuse me for that..

[Inigo Montoya]

I doubt he would have caught him in an all out scrap. But even if he had caught him, would he have passed him? At Monaco? Forget it.

[JeremySmith]

He got very close at one point though Inigo, could have been a tremendous end to a rather subdued race..

[Paulc]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

He got very close at one point though Inigo, could have been a tremendous end to a rather subdued race..

Couldnt agree more sir!

[ralf fan]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

He got very close at one point though Inigo, could have been a tremendous end to a rather subdued race..

Would he have gotten close had Dennis assured Alonso that Hamilton would not be making a move? I doubt it. Alonso was roughly 10 secs ahead after the second round of stops and within 2-3 laps that gap evaporated. I highly doubt Hamilton was 3 seconds quicker per lap on merit.

[SRabbit]

As much as I am a massive fan and would have loved to have seen Lewis win his first race, the right guy won this weekend.

Hamilton admitted he hit a lot of barriers throughout the race, and we saw him more than once run into a corner too hot and understeer, and generally make a meal of things.

For me Alsonso drove a perfect race. He responded when Lewis upped his efforts, and I didn't see Alonso lock a brake, miss an apex, understeer, oversteer, run off line through a corner - nothing - it was clinical - and he deserved the result.

[JeremySmith]

Did Lewis not get to within 3-5 Seconds of Fernando though? maybe I am mistaken.

[Frank_White]

The team orders are clear from the following points:

1. Lewis was fuelled five or six laps more than Alonso for qualifying. To much for him to have a realistic run for pole and too little to run a one stop. Besides the option tire degraded too much on a heavy fuel load and Lewis could not realistically run 51 laps with the option tyre. Ron's explanation about Lewis being initially on a one stop is BS. Moreover, any fool knows that pole is important to win in Monaco.

2. Lewis was called in 2 to 3 laps early for his first stop negating any possibility of him passing Alonso.

3. Lewis was called in about 6 laps early in the second stop.

If the strategies were reversed Lewis would have won easily in Monaco.

[deejay]

Originally Posted by Frank_White

The team orders are clear from the following points:

1. Lewis was fuelled five or six laps more than Alonso for qualifying. To much for him to have a realistic run for pole and too little to run a one stop. Besides the option tire degraded too much on a heavy fuel load and Lewis could not realistically run 51 laps with the option tyre. Ron's explanation about Lewis being initially on a one stop is BS. Moreover, any fool knows that pole is important to win in Monaco.

2. Lewis was called in 2 to 3 laps early for his first stop negating any possibility of him passing Alonso.

3. Lewis was called in about 6 laps early in the second stop.

If the strategies were reversed Lewis would have won easily in Monaco.

Very creative.

[deeks6]

Originally Posted by Frank_White

The team orders are clear from the following points:

1. Lewis was fuelled five or six laps more than Alonso for qualifying. To much for him to have a realistic run for pole and too little to run a one stop. Besides the option tire degraded too much on a heavy fuel load and Lewis could not realistically run 51 laps with the option tyre. Ron's explanation about Lewis being initially on a one stop is BS. Moreover, any fool knows that pole is important to win in Monaco.

2. Lewis was called in 2 to 3 laps early for his first stop negating any possibility of him passing Alonso.

3. Lewis was called in about 6 laps early in the second stop.

If the strategies were reversed Lewis would have won easily in Monaco.

I like this ...

Similarly, if:

1. If there were 16 retirements and not 3 DC would have won (easily).
2. If Alonso had tripped over on Saturday and injured himself and McLaren flew in Sebastian Bourdais, Bourdais would have won.
3. If the Ferrari was a second a lap faster, Massa would have won.
4. If it was a rally, Sebastian Loeb would have won.
5. If you could only run last years cars, Scott Speed would have won.
6. If he did'nt retire, Michael Schumacher would have won.
7. If it was a NASCAR race, JPM still wouldnt have won.
8. If Ferrari had not been so silly and signed Raikkonen, maybe Hamilton would be driving a Spyker and he definitely would not have won.
9. If his biorythms were right Ralf would have finished 15th and been driver of the race.
10. If it was GP4, I would have beaten all of them.

[Doc Hollywood]

Originally Posted by deeks6

I like this ...

Similarly, if:

1. If there were 16 retirements and not 3 DC would have won (easily).
2. If Alonso had tripped over on Saturday and injured himself and McLaren flew in Sebastian Bourdais, Bourdais would have won.
3. If the Ferrari was a second a lap faster, Massa would have won.
4. If it was a rally, Sebastian Loeb would have won.
5. If you could only run last years cars, Scott Speed would have won.
6. If he did'nt retire, Michael Schumacher would have won.
7. If it was a NASCAR race, JPM still wouldnt have won.
8. If Ferrari had not been so silly and signed Raikkonen, maybe Hamilton would be driving a Spyker and he definitely would not have won.
9. If his biorythms were right Ralf would have finished 15th and been driver of the race.
10. If it was GP4, I would have beaten all of them.

Classic! Well said!

[gcalvert]

Originally Posted by Frank_White

The team orders are clear from the following points:

1. Lewis was fuelled five or six laps more than Alonso for qualifying. To much for him to have a realistic run for pole and too little to run a one stop. Besides the option tire degraded too much on a heavy fuel load and Lewis could not realistically run 51 laps with the option tyre. Ron's explanation about Lewis being initially on a one stop is BS. Moreover, any fool knows that pole is important to win in Monaco.

2. Lewis was called in 2 to 3 laps early for his first stop negating any possibility of him passing Alonso.

3. Lewis was called in about 6 laps early in the second stop.

If the strategies were reversed Lewis would have won easily in Monaco.

If we assume that Ron is not stupid (fair assumption I reckon).

Then I doubt he had 6 laps more fuel. His qualifiying performance would have have shown a greater difference than it did. Why would Ron do it.

He stoped when he had to as he had only that much fuel (still had a pit stop advantage).

He failed to show early in the race the ability to hound Alonso and put himself in the position he needed to to genuinely threaten Alonso at the first stop even if he had a 6 lap fuel advantage.

He was fueled and therefore stopped when he had to on the second stop.

Lewis is managing the media for his own purposes, drivers all do, why not it is a proffession remember. The British press in particular need it, what else have they got at the moment as Button is nowhere (thank Honda for that), David close to retirement (in more ways than one driving a Red Bull).

Lewis is a great driver, so is Alonso. Alonso did what he had to to beat him (importantly incuding getting pole). Roll on the next race. The whole arguement is a farce.

[Adam43]

I think you have missed the conclusion to this from the FIA.

Originally Posted by gcalvert

Then I doubt he had 6 laps more fuel. His qualifiying performance would have have shown a greater difference than it did. Why would Ron do it.

He had five more laps at the start, although that didn't mean he could have gone five more laps.

He stoped when he had to as he had only that much fuel (still had a pit stop advantage).

He stopped early:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/59282

Think safety car more than the above.

[Alan Raine]

I think DC sums it up

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/59334

and I totally agree with him

[amier]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Did Lewis not get to within 3-5 Seconds of Fernando though? maybe I am mistaken.

Alonso was so slow after his last pit stop for a lap or so that it looked like he almost had a problem. He was cruising and was not pushing or stressing the car anymore than he should be.

Give Alonso credit for the win instead of saying Hamilton could have won or team orders let him down etc.