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22 Mar 2006, 02:43 (Ref:1556924) | #1 | ||
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$1,045.45 vs $681.82 - Which is the better wheel?
I am curious.
According to the Supercar rules of engagement, a team is allowed to keep 64 Dunlop tyres in its allocation of any condition, from the previously bought sets used at past events. This means (by my calcs) that a team needs at least 64 rims for these dry tyres, probably 8 or 12 more for wet tyres, and a set of 4 rims for travelling. This is then around 80 rims per car. Triple 8 showed off their new A-tek rim at Sandown last year, and everyone went "ohh ahh, I gotta get me summa dose" and Mr Roman found himself talking to everyone looking for a freebie But lets look at the cost.. The new whizzbang 8 spoke A-tek RF54 wheel from Roman AutoTek costs $1,150.00 per wheel including GST (according to AF) or $1,045.45 per rim. The 5 spoke A-tek RS108 wheel from Roman AutoTek costs $750.00 per wheel including GST (according to AF) or $681.82 per rim. Most teams are conservative with their footwear, keeping rims for years, stripping the paint and crack testing/x raying them for wear and damage. Some have too much cash to burn, and completely refit their cars every year with new rims. So a team buys 80 rims @ $1045.45 per wheel, costing them $83,636.00 per car. Or they could buy 80 rims @ $681.82 per wheel, costing them $54,545.60 per car. Saving $29,090.40. Now presuming these wheels last as long, do the same job, are as equally strong in deflecting damage etc etc, why precisely would a team spend an additional $29k per car when they can buy cheaper wheels that can do the same job Aesthetics aside, it is a total waste of money. The people running this class talk about cost savings, yet they are happy to burn $29k per car buying wheels when there is an alternative that does the job and is cheaper Why doesnt Larkham jump up and down about this stuff? His old team had 10 year old Speedlines, they replaced 3 rims a year.. cost containment, come on down Or not. If thats the agenda anyway |
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22 Mar 2006, 02:48 (Ref:1556929) | #2 | ||
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Are the new rims lighter? or is there a ruling for the weight of the wheels? If the rims are lighter I could see the advantage in getting the new ones, apart from the look good factor.
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22 Mar 2006, 02:54 (Ref:1556930) | #3 | ||
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Brake cooling, ease of mechanice pulling off the wheels... all unquantifiable stuff.
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22 Mar 2006, 03:01 (Ref:1556937) | #4 | ||
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If its better, and the teams can afford it then why not?
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22 Mar 2006, 03:16 (Ref:1556949) | #5 | ||
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Its money the teams dont need to spend. Like industrial sized coffee machines for the transporter
$29k would fund a pretty good state formula ford championship in running costs for the year if you didnt crash it, and owned the car & engines. |
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22 Mar 2006, 23:35 (Ref:1557897) | #6 | |||
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Quote:
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22 Mar 2006, 03:19 (Ref:1556951) | #7 | ||
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It pains me to say it, but I think I nearly agree with you Vanilla Dice
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22 Mar 2006, 04:12 (Ref:1556965) | #8 | ||
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I see your point VD, but is there anything in the rules to state the team must have the tyres on rims? Perhaps they simply store the tyres and get them mounted up for when they go testing, or for racing?
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22 Mar 2006, 04:27 (Ref:1556969) | #9 | ||
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Just because they have that many tyres doesn't mean they need that many rims.
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22 Mar 2006, 04:31 (Ref:1556972) | #10 | ||
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Another valid point
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22 Mar 2006, 04:45 (Ref:1556976) | #11 | ||
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The tyres wouldn't deform if not on the rim?
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22 Mar 2006, 05:05 (Ref:1556980) | #12 | |||
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22 Mar 2006, 04:48 (Ref:1556977) | #13 | |
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Theyre obviously an advantage or these teams wouldnt use them. I wouldnt imagine the teams would need that many rims. Why do they need different rims for wet tyres?
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22 Mar 2006, 05:35 (Ref:1556988) | #14 | ||
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They dont need 80 rims per car, but the hot shots do buy that many... or have accumulated that many over the years.
Would you like to be Britek or PCR, new to the main game, not contracted to Dunlop directly, and have to wait for 28 other cars to be fitted before you in a mad rubber rush. Maybe this is a source of team competitive advantage Certainly there are sets of wets mounted & ready to go at most race meetings, plus the old junky rims and rubber to go travelling SBR arent using them, so there cant be much to them besides the marketing hype |
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22 Mar 2006, 05:49 (Ref:1556996) | #15 | ||
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The growth in the second tier series would have also generated a market for "second hand" wheels thus mitigating the cost of the new wheels. Finally, they don't NEED new chassis and/or paintjobs every year but to keep "interest" and generate buzz all kinds of things are done. Not may argue the new rims LOOK worse. I know it adds nothing to the motor sport side but TC will tell you it is about entertinement and "the product". |
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22 Mar 2006, 06:09 (Ref:1557002) | #16 | ||
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A wheel is a wheel is a wheel. It stops the car falling on the road.
As long as it doesnt crack (cue TecnoMagnesio) anything that holds the car up without blocking too much air to the brakes should be fine for use. Is it a marketing tool, an attempt to put a seed of doubt in a teams mind that the new 888 wheels are something special, and we need them too so we can go fast like Craig? Could be... In the Sierra days, I thought the prettiest and most practical wheels were the Ronal units we saw on the Miedecke and later Francevic cars.. they had good air cooling and were pretty light for their time... and were cast as opposed to joined like the BBS versions.. But Brock, Waldock and co picked the DJR wheels, which looked ok, but had no technical value other than aesthetics.. maybe it was a simpler time and we didnt understand all that.. |
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23 Mar 2006, 09:16 (Ref:1558199) | #17 | ||
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Nuff said |
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23 Mar 2006, 22:16 (Ref:1559039) | #18 | |||
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.. this quote is true. Can the Speedline wheel rims used by V8Supercar teams since 1993 do the job in 2006 they could do in 1993? Answer... Yes. Can the Oz wheels used in their place by many teams do the same? Answer... Yes. Can these 8 spoke (888) or 6 spoke (HRT) wheels do the same? Answer.. Yes. They are interchangeable in the sense that they can all do the same job, have passed the same types of tests to prove they are suitable (and some have been race tested over more than a decade) from that standpoint a wheel is a wheel is a wheel You can get deeper into whats going on with temperature measurements, measuring airflows coming in towards the hub, the heat dissipation whwn onboard, and after running in cooldown mode... everything that is measurable is a variable that can be considered which one is better than the others.. But like everythng.. there is no 'perfect' wheel. I look at the thin spokes of the 888 wheel and wonder when they are interlocked with another car, will the spoke be more likely to break because it is physically smaller (and therefore loses the protection of surface area) than a Speedline or Oz wheel spoke? Take a look at the 'sparco' wheels the proddie Subarus used just a few short years ago, the thin spokes used to break under load in older sets of these wheels because the spokes were too thin... and broke away from the hub after long use, or hitting kerbs with that wheel.... There is more than one way to skin an engineered cat... |
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22 Mar 2006, 07:29 (Ref:1557037) | #19 | ||
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I have been to the DJR workshop on a few occasions , their tyres were in racks with the bar code visible and marked as to where on the car it was fitted and where it was used , the tyres were not mounted on rims - a rack with bare rims was across from the tyres ; didn't count the tyres but about 30 seems likely with about 20 rims in the rack - the vehicles and equipment were on there way to Bathurst for the 04 race so the wheels and tyres in the workshop were surplus to what was on the cars (including development series) and the spares in the truck. Lots of wheels and tyres in my arithmetic.
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23 Mar 2006, 01:23 (Ref:1557948) | #20 | ||
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VD, your'e at Hope Island, Tony C lives just down the road and a lot of the major teams are scattered fairly closely around you.
Why not pose the question to them? I think a Courier Mail journalist lives fairly close to you, a journo who knows a bit about motorsport (particularly V8 Supercars). You could ask him as well. |
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23 Mar 2006, 01:54 (Ref:1557963) | #21 | ||
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It doesn't seem to worry Paul Gover too much.
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23 Mar 2006, 02:41 (Ref:1557975) | #22 | |||
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22 Mar 2006, 08:07 (Ref:1557268) | #23 | |
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We are in the era of who has the most toys win. In 1976 one Allan Moffat had 20 rims and 30 tyres in the truck that got burnt down in the Adelaide hills and that was considered excess. Nothing compared to what some teams now have in there stocks.
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22 Mar 2006, 08:20 (Ref:1557328) | #24 | ||
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If a team uses 5 or 6 sets of tyres in a typical 1000km Bathurst race, thats 24 wheels right there... all of which are usually mounted before race start... plus the wets plus the travellers...
It must be a lot easier now the wheels are interchangeable front to rear too... |
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22 Mar 2006, 09:20 (Ref:1557390) | #25 | ||
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If the new ones are more expensive than what's the point of them, aren't T8 supposed to be pushing for cost containment????
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