The RS Spyder "Gentleman" story

[The Badger]

What do you folks think of the story about Patrick Peter suggesting to Porsche not to sell their chassis to a LMS team who intend to run 2 pro's in the car`?

I think its nothing short of a bloody disgrace !!!

[SebringMG]

Agreed absolute disgrace !! What is the difference between someone running an RS Spyder with 2 pros and what Embassy are planning ? In my opinion not a lot!!

[AU N EGL]

Porsche should only sell the Spyder to teams that are fully funded and professional drivers, no paid drivers.

Keep the car up front of the field and great for marketing.

[minimangler]

Shocking, without doubt. I am disgusted. Why should they not be sold the car?

[gwyllion]

Stupid idea. Then LMS shouldn't allow Peugeot to run 2 pros either, etc.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Stupid idea. Then LMS shouldn't allow Peugeot to run 2 pros either, etc.

Yeah ..... put Nicolas Zarkozy in the car with Minassian !!!

[WouterM]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Stupid idea. Then LMS shouldn't allow Peugeot to run 2 pros either, etc.

Last time I checked, Peugeot didn't run in the P2 class.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by WouterM

Last time I checked, Peugeot didn't run in the P2 class.

Obviously gwyllion knows this and was making the point that in his opinion if you have such a silly rule then it should be applied to all (classes).

[mariantic]

Originally Posted by The Badger

What do you folks think of the story about Patrick Peter suggesting to Porsche not to sell their chassis to a LMS team who intend to run 2 pro's in the car`?

The story as I saw it:-
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl...&rssfeed=rss01

is an agreement between LMS boss Patrick Peter and team owner Frans Verschuur. in effect "just one pro and you get an LMS entry, two and you don't". I can't see where Porsche is being requested not to sell to all-pro teams.

Am I missing another story? If so can someone put up a link please.

Mariantic

[minimangler]

Originally Posted by mariantic

The story as I saw it:-
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl...&rssfeed=rss01

is an agreement between LMS boss Patrick Peter and team owner Frans Verschuur. in effect "just one pro and you get an LMS entry, two and you don't". I can't see where Porsche is being requested not to sell to all-pro teams.

Am I missing another story? If so can someone put up a link please.

Mariantic

Still, they are hampering Porsche just because they MIGHT be excellent in LMP2. Not fair!

[The Badger]

Ok ..... maybe i got it slightly wrong , but the poll stays the same .

What do think about Peter's suggestion to teams interested in running the RS Spyder .

With all these rubbish rules ..... dont cross the white line , dont hit the bollard and now , dont have 2 top drivers in your Porsche , what is next I wonder ?

[Hugewally]

Verschuur said: "I have to accept this, even though it is not in the rules. You cannot compare us to Penske in the American Le Mans Series: it is a factory team and we are a true privateer."

Total BS. What's the point of buying & racing a Porsche if what you're basically saying is that you don't want to win. Or is he saying that the LMS teams aren't that good to begin with?

[knighty]

yes, this truly sucks.

[The Badger]

Why should VS have to accept this if it is not in the rules ?

Sounds like a bit of blackmail to me !!!

Should Porsche not step in and say something about this ?

[Speed-King]

The problem is that the LMS is oversubscribed and they have to accept no team that isn't doing whatever they want. I think there's not much Porsche could do.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

I think there's not much Porsche could do.

I think there is something Porsche could do ..... but I dont know the law .

Peter is effectivily chaining a lead boot on the RS Spyder . Why should the Porsche name be sullied by potential poor results ?

Also , Porsche could object to the fact that it is only with respect to their product .

[JAG]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Why should VS have to accept this if it is not in the rules ?

Sounds like a bit of blackmail to me !!!

Should Porsche not step in and say something about this ?

Why do you and others throw a fit at this proposal, yet the guy actually running the team have accepted this move?

P2's will have the weight increase in the LMS, they aren't going to be competing for overall wins on pure pace, as they have in the ALMS.

Porsche will be in P1 in a year or two, chill out, there's too much fretting over insignificant, petty issues, rather than looking at the bigger picture.

[The Badger]

[QUOTE=JAG]Why do you and others throw a fit at this proposal, yet the guy actually running the team have accepted this move?QUOTE]

Because it is wrong to try to enforce a rule that does not exist . You obviously like the idea of people making new rules that dont exist .

Teams are there to try their best to win ..... As for the man himself excepting the rule , i suggest that he is not happy but does not seem to have a choice in the matter .

Another reason for "throwing a fit" as you call it ..... because it is my opinion and I am allowed to voice my opinion ..... just like you do !!! Or am I not ?

29 votes to 4 votes looks like your in the minority that seem to agree ..... enjoy your day .

[JAG]

[QUOTE=The Badger]

Originally Posted by JAG

Why do you and others throw a fit at this proposal, yet the guy actually running the team have accepted this move?QUOTE]

Because it is wrong to try to enforce a rule that does not exist . You obviously like the idea of people making new rules that dont exist .

Teams are there to try their best to win ..... As for the man himself excepting the rule , i suggest that he is not happy but does not seem to have a choice in the matter .

Another reason for "throwing a fit" as you call it ..... because it is my opinion and I am allowed to voice my opinion ..... just like you do !!! Or am I not ?

29 votes to 4 votes looks like your in the minority that seem to agree ..... enjoy your day .

I don't need to follow the crowd to justify my point of view, too many people make inaccurate, knee jerk, reactions.

The ALMS introduced performance balancing a few years back, despite the fuss, it's been accepted.

In fact the very same people complaining about forcing a Porsche team to run one pro, one amateur pilot, like current, competitive, teams like RML, Bruichladdich Radical etc. welcome the performance balancing that enables these very same RS Spyders to dominate in the ALMS, against genuine, factory, P1 cars.

Performance balancing also helps AER P2's and competitors to GM in GT1 etc.

Porsche have had it all there own way in the US.

Running a full house, unrestricted RS Spyder, with the 'disadvantage' of only one pro driver, which is in the spirit of the class, doesn't appear, in the slightest, grounds for Porsche to threaten to pull out.

Then idealy the ACO should have gotten their rules correct in the first place and not try to handycap privateers

They have done, with the 50kg weight increase, another ACO reg the RS Spyders will not have to implement in the US. This is about protecting the P2 field.

[SebringMG]

Originally Posted by JAG

In fact the very same people complaining about forcing a Porsche team to run one pro, one amateur pilot, like current, competitive, teams like RML, Bruichladdich Radical etc. welcome the performance balancing that enables these very same RS Spyders to dominate in the ALMS, against genuine, factory, P1 cars.

Not strictly speaking relevant - the only dominant RS Spyders in the ALMS are the Penske (factory) ones, the Dyson privateers do NOT dominate in any way shape or form in fact a decent crewed Zytek was shown to be faster than them at PLM for the most part! The RS Spyders in the LMS are also all due to be privateers, albeit pretty well funded ones!

If the RS Spyder chassis is really that much more dominant than any other P2 chassis (see above) then the customers of the 'inferior' chassis should be forcing their manufacturers to pull their finger out and re-design their own products NOT wait for the ACO to sort it for them.

I would have no problem if the ACO/LMS came out and said all teams in P2 to be pro-am in nature (like GT3 i suppose), what annoys me is hindering one particular chassis over another with this requirement. Either blanket pro-am for ALL teams or allow teams to choose for themselves......

[paul-collins]

Originally Posted by JAG

In fact the very same people complaining about forcing a Porsche team to run one pro, one amateur pilot, like current, competitive, teams like RML, Bruichladdich Radical etc. welcome the performance balancing that enables these very same RS Spyders to dominate in the ALMS, against genuine, factory, P1 cars.

What balancing is that?

Seriously.

Penske beat Audi Sport NA using ACO rules compliant cars.

The only "performance adjustment" in the second half of the season, when Penske dominated, was the fuel rig for the diesels being raised (to allow Audi to refuel faster).

... as to the balancing of turbo vs normally aspirated cars, I think IMSA is acting on data that shows that the ACO restrictor/boost tables are wrong for P2 engines. It's not about helping one team or another, it's about getting the balance right so choices become neutral based on technical merit.

Anyway, I think it's a red herring to force one team - using a rules compliant car - to tie an anchor on so that all other teams - with rules compliant cars - can keep up.

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by JAG

Why do you and others throw a fit at this proposal, yet the guy actually running the team have accepted this move?

Accepted, yes, but very reluctantly!

[paul-collins]

If they want to run pro drivers, we'll take them in the ALMS.

[Spyderman]

A complete and utter disgrace!
Unfortunately it is people with these type of ideas that are often governing our sport.

[TWK]

Do we really need to know any more about why LMS events don't draw flies?

There is a real difference between glorified club racing and the kinds of events that fans will pay money to attend.

Historics are a class of their own because it's not really a "race" that attendees are going to, but an exhibition.

LMS and Grand Am have the same philosophy: Provide a place that wealthy people can race their cars. (I believe Peter has a history of this kind of event.)

Unfortunately, the two objective are fundimentally in conflict. Sports fans (all sports) want to see real competition between the best there is. They can't get that if rules conspire against it, and when they see something like this, well, they aren't stupid. They'll continue to "stay away in droves."