Help me

JVT · 13 Jun 2010, 15:02 (Ref:2711138)

I am in the beginning stages of planning for a motorcycle road course.
if anyone would like to design a track for me go ahead. Here is a possible site

For scale the frontage of the property on the road on the left is 1 Mile.

Make sure there is room for facilities.

Throw me ideas, I am very impressed with this site.

Helicon_One · 13 Jun 2010, 20:08 (Ref:2711420)

Are there any significant elevation changes to consider?

JVT · 13 Jun 2010, 22:24 (Ref:2711525)

As far as I know, nothing significant, id say +- 20' tops, but if it makes the track better we can build some elevation.

**ScotsBrutesFan** · 13 Jun 2010, 23:45 (Ref:2711549)

Why not post some ideas of your own to give us a basis to work on.

These would include the type of facilities, an idea of the length and circuit width your looking for.

JVT · 14 Jun 2010, 00:22 (Ref:2711555)

Sure, I was thinking 2 miles of track surface, at least one decreasing radius turn, with a track width of 25-40' wide.

Tathrim · 14 Jun 2010, 10:26 (Ref:2711777)

couldyou give me the satellite co-ordinates for Google Earth? I feel the urge to do some SketchUp.

bio · 14 Jun 2010, 10:53 (Ref:2711800)

Tathrim,
how are you going to make the elevation in SketchUp?

bio

Quintin03 · 14 Jun 2010, 16:12 (Ref:2712024)

Simples, import the google earth image, create a grid over it, turn elevation on and drag the crosspoints up or down to the image. There you have a grid with rough elevation of the location.

bio · 15 Jun 2010, 10:08 (Ref:2712476)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quintin03

There you have a grid with rough elevation of the location.

My point exactly. Sketchup is simply useless for serious staff because of its disability to represent curved elevation changes. Your method is excellent to do well looking designs, but for exact ones - SketchUp is not the tool, I'm afraid.

bio

JVT · 15 Jun 2010, 13:24 (Ref:2712575)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bio

My point exactly. Sketchup is simply useless for serious staff because of its disability to represent curved elevation changes. Your method is excellent to do well looking designs, but for exact ones - SketchUp is not the tool, I'm afraid.

bio

For now this is great. Actually giving me overall width and height measurements in feet would be great(meters is fine also), because it will open up many more site possibilities with more terrain and elevation changes. It appears that I have overestimated the acreage that I will need for this.
keep them coming.

Who knows YOUR track design could actually become real. If it does I promise you will see it in person.

bio · 17 Jun 2010, 15:39 (Ref:2713774)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JVT

Who knows YOUR track design could actually become real.

Hi,
wish they did...

But i still say racing track should be a business for pros - its a dangerous thing after all, not a game anymore if they get to be built. Its fun to design tracks knowing its never gonna be reality - but real ones... Thats a lot of responsibility... And should be most definitely designed by qualified pros. They know what theyre doing and what the implications of the designs are - we mostly dont...
bio

dyewat808 · 15 Jun 2010, 16:40 (Ref:2712661)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bio

My point exactly. Sketchup is simply useless for serious staff because of its disability to represent curved elevation changes. Your method is excellent to do well looking designs, but for exact ones - SketchUp is not the tool, I'm afraid.

bio

OFF-TOPIC
Bio, about that, what software do you use, cos I found it once, forgot its name, and can't find it again?

Quintin03 · 15 Jun 2010, 16:56 (Ref:2712665)

Bio, there's nothing you can do about it. Modelling software like Google Sketchup is the most effective method of designing a track in good detail. Yes elevation is tricky and inaccurate but there's no better way.

bio · 17 Jun 2010, 16:26 (Ref:2713799)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyewat808

OFF-TOPIC
Bio, about that, what software do you use, cos I found it once, forgot its name, and can't find it again?

Hi,
Ocad for 2D visualisation and Blender + TrackEd for 3D bulding into playable format, Racer to drive on it.

bio

dyewat808 · 14 Jun 2010, 16:28 (Ref:2712034)

Thats a good idea. Might try myself.

JVT · 14 Jun 2010, 18:48 (Ref:2712121)

27°40'5.76"N
81°39'44.13"W
Singaltary rd
Ft meade Fl

LuiggiSpeed · 14 Jun 2010, 22:34 (Ref:2712270)

A motorcycle track 2 miles long?

I'll have a shot at it tonight from my PC, it's my kind of project.

JVT · 14 Jun 2010, 22:39 (Ref:2712273)

2 or 2.5miles
Have a it, still an infant business idea.

LuiggiSpeed · 15 Jun 2010, 04:00 (Ref:2712349)

Sir, your site is very impressing. It can hold a track of any size, and I mean any size, so 2.5 miles only filled up a little corner up there and I believe you can have space for a shopping mall with full parking, so I congratulate you for your choice.

So as a motorcycle racer and amateur track designer I quickly sketched something using only a certain part of the terrain, I purposely used the part that looks clean of obstacles, away from the treeline so that the tree huggers don't complain much and contouring around the wet sumps so that you don't have to do much earth moving, I imagined then the perfect track for me to ride which will include a long straight, about 800m so that I can top my bike in 6th gear,a hard braking zone with a nice constant radius at the end, some high speed sweeps to get rid of the slower riders right away, the increasing radius you asked for,and infield section with directional changes to equally scratch my knee sliders , a couple more directional changes at high speed, a hairpin to use as overtaking spot followed by another directional change in which to reverse the pass, and a tricky corner to force me to choose the perfect line from where to get maximum drive to the straight.

I put many directional changes so motorcyclists can have fun passing and retaliating passes, and a couple of hard braking spots perfect for overtaking.

Not too physical, not tight or tortuous at all, more like a flowing circuit with plenty of space where to run off in case of a misshapen, no sections are aiming towards any others. This is exactly 2.52 miles long, ilustrated as 13 m wide with a 350 long pit lane,13 corners (depending on how you count them)

This is just warming up, the best track I reckon will come out after a couple of weeks of perfecting the ideas and getting feedback from you.

JVT · 15 Jun 2010, 16:58 (Ref:2712666)

Guys please keep on topic this is very important to me.

Thanks

**ScotsBrutesFan** · 15 Jun 2010, 23:06 (Ref:2712886)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JVT

Guys please keep on topic this is very important to me.

Thanks

In order to keep the thread on track please provide more information regarding what exactly is required. There has been many requests such as this before that have come to nothing.

dyewat808 · 16 Jun 2010, 16:32 (Ref:2713249)

Ooh, I like the design alex.

For me personally, I always feel that a circuit having more than 20 corners is a bit much, and that a couple of chicanes are perhaps a little unecssary. But I think thats just my personal opinion - the actual design I like, as well as the variations.

Like I say, only thing I would change is perhaps removing the chicanes (although you have included bypasses for this).

So overall, good job

Hf_Integrale · 16 Jun 2010, 19:36 (Ref:2713328)

I also like it! A good job overall!
About the gravel traps: the way they look and the way they work is calculated by FIA with a special software, after you submit the design to them (both on paper and electronic version). They make a "simulation" which costs some thousands of Euro and they end up by telling you what the size of the traps should be in order for the track to be official. The software they use was developed specially for them.

Alexander86 · 16 Jun 2010, 20:59 (Ref:2713374)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hf_Integrale

I also like it! A good job overall!
About the gravel traps: the way they look and the way they work is calculated by FIA with a special software, after you submit the design to them (both on paper and electronic version). They make a "simulation" which costs some thousands of Euro and they end up by telling you what the size of the traps should be in order for the track to be official. The software they use was developed specially for them.

I made my estimations by looking at top level tracks.
Example: Circuit de Catalunya (Barcelona, Spanish F1 GP). The straight is over 1km long, but the gravel trap (before the tarmac run off was added) is only between 60 and 70 meters, measured straight ahead.
TT circuit Assen, home of the Dutch MotoGP race. Pits straight is 620 meters, the tarmac run off is 24 meters, the gravel another 41 meters. This part was built only a few years ago, so I reckon it's up to modern safety standards.

Although unofficial, I think this method gives you a pretty good idea what size you need your traps to be without spending thousands of dollars.

LuiggiSpeed · 17 Jun 2010, 00:13 (Ref:2713456)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexander86

I made my estimations by looking at top level tracks.
Example: Circuit de Catalunya (Barcelona, Spanish F1 GP). The straight is over 1km long, but the gravel trap (before the tarmac run off was added) is only between 60 and 70 meters, measured straight ahead.
TT circuit Assen, home of the Dutch MotoGP race. Pits straight is 620 meters, the tarmac run off is 24 meters, the gravel another 41 meters. This part was built only a few years ago, so I reckon it's up to modern safety standards.

Although unofficial, I think this method gives you a pretty good idea what size you need your traps to be without spending thousands of dollars.

That's exactly what I have done, I have gone through all the important circuits and measured the straight vs the run-off and the most I've seen is 100m(Qatar) , with the norm being 50-70m. Back to our rule of the thumb, Catalunya having a K long, means probably speeds in excess of 200MPH which would mean 200ft of run-off, 200ft=60M so it's a good estimation without any expensive software.

As important as the distance is the position, as out of control vehicles almost never follow the geometric shape of the track, the direction should follow the race line, which is considered the ruling parameter of a racetrack.