When will they ever learn?

[Dave Brand]

Ceefax yesterday reported that seven Formula Palmer Audi drivers had their best qualifying times disallowed as they had been established under yellow flags.

So, what part of 'slow down' is it these idiots don't understand?

[Stephen Green]

Actually Dave there were Yellow and Red flags being waved at the same time as the session was stopped! Says it all doesn't it...maybe Mr Palmer would like to have a word with his drivers?

[chezza]

Thats really bad...i know we had some problems with not lifting off under yellows too!

I think that a lot of drivers need the flags explaining to them again and again and again probably!!

[Barny]

From a drivers point of view, I have always slowed down, but the number of times I have been overtaken whilst in the yellow area or imediatley after, as others drivers don't slow or only lift is amazing, on only one occassion has action been taken, when the overtaking car's driver was qustioned by the CoC, he then only got a ticking off. I am sure this is the norm, and so drivers do not slow as they do not want to loose places, particularly in proffesional championhips, when careers are at stake. Severe action must be applied to the guilty parties.

[Micky.H]

What will it take before any one listens, we frequently witness and report the lack of response to our flag signals.

[Stephen Green]

I'm surprised that so few drivers have been cautioned Barny, something that does not bode well for safety! Personally, as Observer on post, I report all overtaking under yellows to Race Control. Once done the ball is no longer in my court, but it's fair to say that I often get calls from the Clerk of the Course to tell me what action they took.

I know there is no excuse for overtaking under yellow flags but it has to be said there are varying reasons why it may have occurred. The Clerk of the Course will no doubt take any accentuating circumstances into account in his judgement.

The most scary thing for a marshal is to be working on a live track with drivers who don't slow down. We have all seen the sort of accidents that can happen on the formation lap when cars are not at racing speed!

Maybe we need a concerted effort from Clerks to make the point during drivers briefings and to make it known that they WILL take action with offenders. In the same breath we marshals need to make sure we report ALL incidents!

[Stephen Green]

Micky, a very big welcome to Ten-Tenths.

[Barny]

I agree fully, and not just overtaking, Drivers should be told that thier lap times will be checked, and if a significant differance is not apparant they should loose that lap or be excluded from the results, only stiff measures will work.

We don't have drivers briefings very often, only Combe nowadays.

[Stephen Green]

Well said Barny. Have you thought of mentioning this to your series co-ordinator as they may be able to bring some sence back into play?

[Andrew Palmer]

I have to agree with Barny that some drivers do not slow down for fear of losing a place. May be the observes at and after the green flag should look for over taking as well.

But then again the question can be when is the yellow zone over when you see the green flag or when you are level with the post showing it?

[Stephen Green]

It's a little like a rolling start, you are not allowed to overtake until you have PASSED the green flag. So for a yellow flag area, you have to pass the green flag at the marshals post after the accident before you are allowed to overtake. Anyone who overtakes before then will be reported to the Clerk of the Course.

[Dave Brand]

Originally posted by Andrew Palmer
I have to agree with Barny that some drivers do not slow down for fear of losing a place.

So what's their excuse in qualifying?

[Barny]

I must admit I floor it as soon as I hazard is passed, rather than wait untill the green is passed but still loose ground to following cars!

Series co-ordinator?, in something like 8 years of competing in several championships I have never met one, nor at any time has an a official of a club ever introduced themselves.

[Stephen Green]

Hello...I'm Stephen Green. Observer at Brands Hatch and sometimes Priest Catcher at Silverstone

[Bob Pearson]

The tools to adress this problem lie with the C of C. Once it becomes clear in all drivers minds that the penalty for breaching yellow flag rules is exclusion in a race or loss of all times in qualifying then the drivers will comply. I have said this all many times, as soon as the C of C is prepared to consider an excuse, all is lost. It must be an automatic penalty. Sometimes it will seem harsh, but it is the only way. Driver's briefings have, in the past been so mind numbingly pointless, that I doubt if the in grained effect of them on the drivers could ever be reversed which, of couse would be nesessary before they even digested a word of what was being said.

[SJC-214]

Originally posted by Barny
I agree fully, and not just overtaking, Drivers should be told that thier lap times will be checked, and if a significant differance is not apparant they should loose that lap or be excluded from the results, only stiff measures will work.

We don't have drivers briefings very often, only Combe nowadays.

I agree totally with Barny on this, if a drivers lap times don't show a significant increase in time indicating that they have slowed noticeably then they should face severe penalties.

As an I.O the number of times I have had to complain to the observer on post about drivers not slowing when me and the incident team are working on a live track is amazing and somewhat frightening. The majority of times its the "professional" drivers who are the worse offenders.

[goforit500]

I have been excluded for overtaking under yellows. This subject has been discussed elsewhere on the forum. The circumstances were that the I was unsighted as it was uphill and the post was covered by another cars' quarter...

Still - No excuse....If only it was consistent...

[Stephen Green]

That's the point, as Bob and others have said above, we need consistency from all the Clerks, Observers and IO's. Only then will we be able to apply the rules in a fair manner to drivers.

[SJC-214]

I agree Steve, but the Clerks tend to come down heavy on the "club racers" and the majority of time with these people its a genuine mistake as Goforit500 says.

The real culprits (F3 and Palmer Audi drivers to name but two) who in my opinion tend to have a total disregard for there own safety let alone the Marshals literally get away with murder.

Perhaps a CofC could answer the question

Why don't you hand out severe penalties to these drivers who blantly overtake/or refuse to slow done when waved yellow flags are being displayed?

[JimW]

But well done whoever was running the FPA meeting.

I report every overtaking. I know which clubs/officials take action and which take excuses. I tend to try and marshal with the former. It just somehow feels safer that way.

Jim

[Woolley]

This is the scariest thing as a marshal. You're standing at the edge of the track dealing with an incident, maybe even an injured driver, and you see two cars side by side bearing down on you. For consistency, exclusion should follow every time. I tend to take the view that if it's reported it needs dealing with, if there are reasons why it happened, such as a very slow car, then don't bother reporting it, or explain why you are not concerned.

[Fan]

I hope I'm wrong but I have a gut feeling that the only time something will happen is when there's a big accident under yellows (ie: someone gets hurt). I pray that I'm wrong though...

[DALY]

a racer myself, I am often puzzled at the things driver's can get away with. Observers need to press for a call to the CoC if they think the driver was a pratt. An example is weaving and forcing competitors off the black stuff on a straight to prevent overtaking. (national supersports at Donington!) I have experienced this in FF1600 and no action was taken because no one saw the move. Having spent a few meetings in race control, marshalled on the bank a couple of times, I think the CoC needs the info from the bank, regardless of it's perceived triviality. :Let the CoC be the judge, the others just report what you see. we will then have great racing.
Thank you to the marshalls that turn out rain or shine to enable the drivers to race.

[Stephen Green]

I agree with you whole heartedly and most Observers do exactly that. However, there are occasions when we don't see things and have to rely on other members of the team to give us the details which we in turn can write up.

If we can get a regular flow of reports going to the C of the C (and lets be honest, at the marshals briefing we are specifically asked to do just that) then we can ask for consistency from the Clerks. As has been said before, the whole judicial system has to be a team effort, and that includes drivers.

[Bob Pearson]

Jim W said well done whoever was running the meeting, but was it? Dave B's original posting said the 7 drivers lost their best times. That means they were possibly no worse off than if they had slowed for the yellows. That puts it into the "worth a try" bracket.
There must be a deterrent, and the right example to have shown to all drivers would have been that these 7 drivers lost all their times and started from the back of the grid.
The penalty must be clear and applied across the board, regardless of excuse, no time in qualifying and exclusion in the race.