Marshals sitting down during racing

[red5pete]

At Castle Combe yesterday I observed a further reduction in marshalling standards. During several races marshals sat in their deck chairs or on the ground at tower corner, and at Bobbies. Admittedly it was during some of the smaller races, but is this acceptable with this picture in mind.

[deadsquirrel]

Originally Posted by red5pete

At Castle Combe yesterday I observed a further reduction in marshalling standards. During several races marshals sat in their deck chairs or on the ground at tower corner, and at Bobbies. Admittedly it was during some of the smaller races, but is this acceptable with this picture in mind.

The link does not work, but you can get to it from www.fota.co.uk then going gallery and selecting Castle Combe. It's the image of the F3 going on/over the barriers.

Smaller races don't have smaller incidents... Doesn't sound too good to me, but I wasn't there.

I asked a cameraman who was sat behind concrete barrier, but on spare tyre wall at Rockingham on Sunday to stand up or move during racing. You DO NOT have time to move if you're sat down.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by deadsquirrel

The link does not work,

Depends what browser you're using. With Firefox it opens a 'what should Firefox do with this file?' dialog box. Checking 'open with' & clicking on 'browse' allows you to choose Firefox as a helper application, which will then open it in a new tab. Bizarre, but better than having to resort to Internet Exploder!

[JimW]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

Depends what browser you're using. With Firefox it opens a 'what should Firefox do with this file?' dialog box. Checking 'open with' & clicking on 'browse' allows you to choose Firefox as a helper application, which will then open it in a new tab. Bizarre, but better than having to resort to Internet Exploder!

Hmm. Another dead horse being given a canter. As usual IE works just fine for me. Opens the link just as advertised.

Why change from the market leader when it works just fine? (Turns out light and looks for hiding place. )

Regards

Jim

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by JimW

Hmm. Another dead horse being given a canter.

'Canter' being the operative word! This is no the place to bore you with detail, but some time ago I found myself in a situation where browser speed was an issue. IE 5.5 was very slow! Opera? Hmmm.....fast, but frequent crashes & a dogmatic adherence to the ECMAscript standard make it, for me, nothing more than an interesting experiment. Right now, Firefox has two advantages over IE - tabbed browsing & a built-in RSS reader.

Why change from the market leader when it works just fine?

I look forward to seeing you arrive at a meeting in your new Ford!

[CombeMarshal]

I would never do it, I must confess though, In the Ferrari race (yep, all 5 cars) when the cars had passed I could sit on the fence for what seemed like hours till they came back round!!

I hate all the sitting down, or the leaving you foldy up chair right where your going to fall over them if you need to run for cover.

You say Further Reduction, what else have you seen??

Lee

[Joyce George]

It is NEVER acceptable to sit down when cars are on circuit, whether racing, on a slowing down lap or whatever. It is downright dangerous. Neither should a marshal be smoking or eating. I have pointed this out on a couple of occasions this year to those on my post, I may not have been popular, but at least they didn't get hurt! The mini arriving ON the Gooseneck earlier this year proving the point.

[CombeMarshal]

Originally Posted by joyceswan

It is NEVER acceptable to sit down when cars are on circuit, whether racing, on a slowing down lap or whatever. It is downright dangerous. Neither should a marshal be smoking or eating. I have pointed this out on a couple of occasions this year to those on my post, I may not have been popular, but at least they didn't get hurt! The mini arriving ON the Gooseneck earlier this year proving the point.

I do agree with you, but with the 5 cars in the 2 20 minute Ferrari races I'm surprised we wern't drowned out by snoring, I don't know if they were sat down as the cars past, or if they were away from the circuit on 'stand down' due to the total lack of racing!!

Lee

[beefy]

I never sit down when there are cars on the bank - I've had too many near misses. It's information I always try to pass on to novices with me.

[275 GTB-4]

Originally Posted by beefy

I never sit down when there are cars on the bank - I've had too many near misses. It's information I always try to pass on to novices with me.

Hey Beefy...we need your sort over here for Bathurst...three days of early starts and sleep deprivation followed by an oh dark hundred start on Sunday for a 1000 Flag drop with continuous racing until the dark again...

Under these circumstances the team has to support each other to allow comfort stops, food, rest breaks etc....

[devon kev]

I am one to admit i did sit down while the 5 ferraris were running but stood again when they were clearing tower plenty of time to sort myself out before they reached me at westway

[ss_collins]

Hmm the logic here seems strange - why is it so hugely dangerous to sit down whilst cars are racing? sounds a stupid question of course but think about it - if you are worn out after a long day you mind wanders you stare aimlessly and can react more slowly - perhaps if you sat down for five minutes whilst not taking you eyes off the action it could in fact improve safety. Those who say that you do not have time to move - have you tried it? or is this just percieved wisdom? after all the adrenalin kick when you see the turd hitting the blower will move you perhaps even more rapidly than if you were standing...

Just a thought from someone who never stands on the bank - rather by the side of the stage where your only barriers are trees...

[deadsquirrel]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

Those who say that you do not have time to move - have you tried it? or is this just percieved wisdom? after all the adrenalin kick when you see the turd hitting the blower will move you perhaps even more rapidly than if you were standing...

Yup - on many occasions, even being stood, 100% attentive barely gave enough time to move. Stood means I only have to determine what direction to move, sat means having to stand up and THEN fix a direction.

[Robin_D]

Im sorry Joyce but I disagree with the eating bit, sometimes during the day the only time you get to eat is during the racing. Many times I have had to throw my sandwich to the floor and go bolting out into the gravel. Smoking I agree is dangerous.

Sitting down is a weird one. I know we were told we could sit down during the 6hr LMES race at Silverstone. I sat down once for a minute or two after I did a Linford Christie out onto the track to gather random bits of TVR.

As long as you are aware or your colleagues or you have an idea if something is happening. Also it does depend where you are and how long you are sitting for.

I marshalled the BSB at Silverstone a week ago. THe marshals on the exit of the chicane were all sitting down all day. That does annoy me as I have seen bikes go anywhere especially accelerating after the chicane.

I think you can sit down, but be careful and keep alook out. Sit down does not mean switch off.

[Woolley]

I did a test with a couple of trainees a few years ago at a hill climb. We had a 'go' shout and in the time it took them to stand up, I'd moved 10 paces and cleared a gate. For those who've played cricket, it's equivalent to getting on your back foot too early - it severely reduces your options. Don't do it, it's not safe.

[mini-mental]

Originally Posted by Woolley

I did a test with a couple of trainees a few years ago at a hill climb. We had a 'go' shout and in the time it took them to stand up, I'd moved 10 paces and cleared a gate. For those who've played cricket, it's equivalent to getting on your back foot too early - it severely reduces your options. Don't do it, it's not safe.

Very good point and proof of the matter. I would like to do a similar test with a £10 note and a marshal who thinks sitting is just as safe . The time it takes to stand up from a chair then start to get out of the way, could mean the difference between getting hit and escaping (which as I've escaped a few times myself, I can tell you my time is most clearly not up, and was greatful of the head start!!!). Once the adrenalin kicks in, no matter how dull the race you suddenly become very aware. SSS starting from a squat is a good idea, but then I wouldn't be able to see over the barrier !!!! Seriosly they start from a squat, not a sit. Not getting at you, but you can't compare.

Originally Posted by Woolley

It's not just whole cars as in the picture. All sorts of bits can come flying over the top and you need to react quickly. It takes little time for a wheel to reach you, and by the time you've stood up it's too late. Even to lie down you've got to get up first - throwing yourself out of the chair in an emergency is harder than you imagine - and even if you know where you're going to go, you have balance issues to sort out as you stand which may prevent you from doing it.

As the picture so clearly demonstartes, and as I mention in my briefings (on the occasions when I'm more awake). Don't stand downwind of a busted car!!!! It makes a great launch pad for other cars, and at best you'll be hit by 80mph debris. Once I'd finished explaining this to a driver at Mallory and we'd moved, guess what happened

[Ian Sowman]

Surely if a meeting is well supported marshal-wise then it is possible to give everyone a chance to sit down on a rota basis - but they should move to the spectator side of the fence before doing so..

[Robin_D]

But you should know that we aren't well supported.

I dont know about other circuits but at Silverstone, the only way to take evasive action is to dive on the bloody floor.

I dont agree that you should sit down on post but maybe further back if needs be.

For example maybe sit by the tower at Copse to get your breath back?

[ss_collins]

sat means having to stand up and THEN fix a direction.

why?

[Robin_D]

Just get down onto your front if you have to. Hands over head.

That requires just basically falling over

[Pete Howarth]

Originally Posted by Robin_D

Just get down onto your front if you have to. Hands over head.

That requires just basically falling over

But at some circuits we know the barriers don't stand up well to heavy impacts. I've had many instances where being stood up and alert has saved me from being a casualty, even at circuits where barriers and protection are good.

[Robin_D]

Sorry it wasnt a pop at you, Just an ideal situation would be nice wouldn't it?

But with things the way they are, in the longer races we could maybe have alook for some ruling on this?

[Robin_D]

Apart from Donington and Mallory, I have only marshalled at Silverstone. So I am used to lots of run off space most of the time. From what I can see at Combe you have no room to swing a cat without it going onto the track. Very little run off considering the speed.

[Ian Sowman]

I know that Robin, which is why I said "if".

[ss_collins]

bear in mind sprinters start from a squat...