Britcar, Brands Hatch - 19th November - split from Trackside for photography talk...

[archibold]

I'll be staying warm, not doing the race this year...but last year it was (choice few words omitted) freezing. The track dried out as the race went by, but it was too cold to even contemplate slicks.

Should be interesting to watch though.

Archibold

[MikeHoyer]

There'll be a few spots where you can get some decent shots, but it will be difficult...

[BertMk2]

I've never used the camera for shots in darkness so I've got no delusions that I'm going to get good results, I'm just going to have a play with the camera settings and see what happens. So where do you think the best opportunities will be?

[Elio]

It shouldn`t be toooo difficult (he hopes)! I`m very much looking forward to it and will be a tad miffed if my shots are rrrrrubbish!! - I`ve had 2 years of practice at this event and this year I`m hoping to have it down to a fine art!

BertMk2 - depends what type of camera you have - if it`s got a meaty enough flash you should be able to get plenty of decent panned shots inside druids - indeed here is the only real place us spectators will be close enough to get a decent flash shot. If you bring a tripod or something to rest your camera on then try Clearways (where GP circuit rejoins Indy as there is no fence there) for a good long-exposure shot to get the headlights/tail-lights zig-zagging across the frame as the cars take Surtees and McLaren. This shot would give you a nice backdrop of Control Tower/Pits as well. Also, try the bottom of the Druids enclosure looking back along Cooper straight with the Control Tower/Pits in the background.

If you don`t have a tripod then don`t try to do a 5 or 6 second exposure shot handheld though!!! Bring something you can stand on the ground (chair/step-stool/up-turned waste-paper basket??!!!) and then lay something soft and padded on top (say, a folded up jumper or something) then you can squash your camera down into that so that it can sit, motionless, whilst you take any long exposures. I know, you`re thinking "Waste paper basket?!" but hey, it`s a club-meeting and it`ll be dark, so the few spectators who ARE there won`t be able to see you!!!!

[Hubble]

Originally Posted by Elio

It shouldn`t be toooo difficult (he hopes)! I`m very much looking forward to it and will be a tad miffed if my shots are rrrrrubbish!! - I`ve had 2 years of practice at this event and this year I`m hoping to have it down to a fine art!

BertMk2 - depends what type of camera you have - if it`s got a meaty enough flash you should be able to get plenty of decent panned shots inside druids - indeed here is the only real place us spectators will be close enough to get a decent flash shot. If you bring a tripod or something to rest your camera on then try Clearways (where GP circuit rejoins Indy as there is no fence there) for a good long-exposure shot to get the headlights/tail-lights zig-zagging across the frame as the cars take Surtees and McLaren. This shot would give you a nice backdrop of Control Tower/Pits as well. Also, try the bottom of the Druids enclosure looking back along Cooper straight with the Control Tower/Pits in the background.

If you don`t have a tripod then don`t try to do a 5 or 6 second exposure shot handheld though!!! Bring something you can stand on the ground (chair/step-stool/up-turned waste-paper basket??!!!) and then lay something soft and padded on top (say, a folded up jumper or something) then you can squash your camera down into that so that it can sit, motionless, whilst you take any long exposures. I know, you`re thinking "Waste paper basket?!" but hey, it`s a club-meeting and it`ll be dark, so the few spectators who ARE there won`t be able to see you!!!!

Inside of Surtees is a clear shot too, but a fast pan, as the cars are clipping the kerb at around 110mph. You could also use the exposure lock function to reduce the effect had by the headlights on your exposure (unless of course you shoot in manual). In front of the MSV building at Clark Curve with a wide angle pointing down Cooper Straight, long exposure set in manual would be nice too....

[Peter_May]

Originally Posted by Elio

If you bring a tripod or something to rest your camera on then try Clearways (where GP circuit rejoins Indy as there is no fence there) for a good long-exposure shot to get the headlights/tail-lights zig-zagging across the frame as the cars take Surtees and McLaren. This shot would give you a nice backdrop of Control Tower/Pits as well. Also, try the bottom of the Druids enclosure looking back along Cooper straight with the Control Tower/Pits in the background.

Another spot would be entry to Druids on the outside where the break in the fence is, can get a long exposure shot of the tail lights, plus if you've forgotten your tripod you can rest the camera on the white fence post. A car to watch out for is of course the ASM Falcon, colourful reflective livery plus flames!

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by Peter_May

Another spot would be entry to Druids on the outside where the break in the fence is, can get a long exposure shot of the tail lights, plus if you've forgotten your tripod you can rest the camera on the white fence post.

I've not taken any pictures from the outside of Druids - I didn't realise there was a usable gap in the fencing (how blind am I? been on the inside of Druids loads!).

I don't have a tripod so I'll be looking for random sturdy things to leave to camera on

[Hubble]

Also, just past the Rallycross bit you can put your lens up against the fence and shoot through the mesh as the cars exit Druids

[James North]

I got some nice pictures of the Noble on Friday (I couldn't make it on Saturday).

I did get this of the "Rapid" Ferrari meeting the tyres at the corner that links to clearways, though.

[Elio]

Oh, and remember, with flash photography in the dark, it`s the flash that freezes the motion, not the shutter speed. In other words - you don`t need a fast shutter any more to freeze motion. If you pick a say, 1/60th Shutter, then the flash will **FLASH** at some point whilst the shutter is open, freezing the image there and then. As soon as it has flashed there is no more light coming into the camera so if you have an unsteady hand it shouldn`t cause things to be blurred - well in principle that`s how I understand it!!!

[MikeHoyer]

Using a slow shutter with rear-curtain sync on the flash produces some interesting results aswell!

[Elio]

Ah, that`s all about the way the lights get portrayed isn`t it?? Been meaning to gen-up on that before the weekend.....

[BertMk2]

My camera is a Canon EOS 350D so it's got all the twiddly setting bits and pieces - I'm fairly happy with changing shutter speeds and panning (had plenty of practice at that now) but I think I need to read some more of the manual before the weekend! I've got an external flash unit but I've not used it before so I don't know how good it is (I got given it by a mate - it's a freebie cast off so I've got a clue how good it is ).

Luckily for me the after dark photos will only be for my benefit, as long as my TRC photos are ok anything else after that is a bonus.

[Elio]

You should be OK with that I`dve thought. I have an external flash as well for my 20D - it`s not the top one in the range but is good enough for close stuff at tracks like Brands. I think the 350 is based around the 20D if memory serves me correct so you can bump the ISO right up to 800 without too much grain if your flash isn`t getting you enough light. It`s a shame the T&R races are sooo short - 8 and 12 minutes won`t last long - especially with a full grid of cars.

[Elio]

Mike, is this the rear-curtain sync effect??....

http://www.mdh-photography.co.uk/Gal...s/photo78.html

Not sure on it myself - it kinda does my head in! Always seems a bit back to front to me!

Really like these 2 though - especially the Mazda - what kind of shutter and aperture were you using there??? Are they these kind of shots where you actually intentionally move the camera as much as you can??!!!

http://www.mdh-photography.co.uk/Gal...s/photo76.html

http://www.mdh-photography.co.uk/Gal...s/photo82.html

[FREE996]

Originally Posted by Elio

Mike, is this the rear-curtain sync effect??....

http://www.mdh-photography.co.uk/Gal...s/photo78.html

Yep rear curtain = flash fires as shutter closes so lights go into image

Front curtain = flash fires as shutter opens so lights go out of image

http://www.studio21.co.uk/bath24/03/...4_03c0248p.htm

[Alfaholic]

Yet another attendee here - the last meeting of the year - only another 4 months 'till the next one !!

Anorak & wooly hat at the ready, camera packed and prepared for chimping (see thread in photography section).

Just one question - with all this talk about flash photography, how about a contribution from a driver as to their opinion (not a dig - just interested how it affects them).

[gizmo71]

I got some reasonable shots last year standing just beyond the Yokohama bridge (before Clark/Clearways), using a D70 and SB800 flash.

One thing to remember is not to breathe out in the same direction and at the same time as you're shooting - I spoiled quite a few shots early on with big clouds of breathed out vapour!

[Elio]

Ok, Ok, sorry for triple posting (!!) but I`ve just found something that demonstrates what I was trying to get at a bit better....

Mike, what have you done differently between these 2 (I`m assuming it has something to do with a zoom lens and a really slow shutter???)....

http://www.mdh-photography.co.uk/Gal...s/photo43.html

http://www.mdh-photography.co.uk/Gal...s/photo42.html

[David L]

Originally Posted by Elio

Ok, Ok, sorry for triple posting (!!) but I`ve just found something that demonstrates what I was trying to get at a bit better....

Mike, what have you done differently between these 2 (I`m assuming it has something to do with a zoom lens and a really slow shutter???)....

http://www.mdh-photography.co.uk/Gal...s/photo43.html

http://www.mdh-photography.co.uk/Gal...s/photo42.html

Shutter speed would be the main difference.. I'd guess that the first was sonething like 125th or 60th/sec, the second maybe 30th or a little slower.. Rear curtain sync to the flash causes the "freeze"..

That's the trouble with flash in the dark, it freezes wheel movement etc.. I hardly used the flash gun on the camera this year.. only really once at le mans.. most other times when I was in the "dark" I shot using available light..

[Elio]

Alfaholic - I`ve often thought the same, and as a speccy I never get the flash out until I see a pro already using one trackside! I was told by a pro a couple of years back that it`s head-on flash stuff that the drivers dislike but that panned shooting doesn`t really have such a distracting effect. I`d be interested to know a more definitive answer though (if there is one) - I only shoot panned images myself as without a press pass head-on stuff is not really possible at a close range at most UK circuits due to fencing.

[Alfaholic]

Elio, if you are who I think you are, you do most of your shooting from the inside of Druids. However in a right hand drive car the driver is on the inside of the corner where you would be shooting and looking at an angle round the corner and more towards you so the flash may be more distracting.

I fancy joining Elio trying some flash photography but don't want to upset any drivers, so their input would be welcome.

p.s. Is this Trackside or Photography?

[chezza]

This seems more like photography..but it says trackside!

I'll be there find me early helping to sign on the Track and Racecar guys, and then later on wandering somewhere.

[Elio]

I`m probably not who you think I am! - though I do shoot a fair bit inside Druids - just easier than struggling through a fence. Browsing a few pics on the pc I can`t find any where the driver is looking anywhere other than straight ahead, and not toward me (unless they`re spinning!). You are starting to make me feel quite un-easy though about whether I should be using a flash (damn you!!!)!!!

Overall though, I think that if the pro`s are actually told at signing-on that they can`t use flash, then it`s only then that the mere amateurs should really start worrying - I`dve thought. A Pro standing at post 6 on the exit of Druids using a flash on people crowning the bend has got to be far more annoying than a speccy with a sub-standard flash doing the same thing from the inside or running down Graham Hill for example.

[James North]

I hope to be able to make it there for the test day on Friday. So I'll probably won't be using much flash.