Super GT what do you think?

[Nivola]

What does everyone think of SUPERGT?

I was lucky enough to be at the Malaysian Round on the weekend. I must say I could not believe the quality of the show. The standard in the cars was stagering and the respect from everyone in the pits was amazing.

Im just wondering what everyone else thinks of this series?

[watermelon]

yea i was also at the event also and agree the cars and the way the series is presented is probably the best in the world... the cars are basically prototypes and the only thing that resembles there road going versions is the shape...

I'd like to see V8's in Aust take a look at the aggresive aero on the cars as they really make the V8's look pretty tame...

Any idea how they'd compare to a lap time of a FIA GT, Aust V8, DTM or other cars>?

[vorsprung]

Originally Posted by watermelon

I'd like to see V8's in Aust take a look at the aggresive aero on the cars as they really make the V8's look pretty tame...

Any idea how they'd compare to a lap time of a FIA GT, Aust V8, DTM or other cars>?

And I've been hoping DTM would take a step towards V8's and reduce aero.

The lap time question pops up every now and then. IIRC GT500 is faster than FIA GT1 and DTM is about as fast as GT1.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by vorsprung

And I've been hoping DTM would take a step towards V8's and reduce aero.

I 100% agree.


SuperGT works because it is heavily supported by the Japanese manufacturers. If SuperGT is so great and succesful for these manufacturers, why do they not start a series in Europe and US? Maybe because these Japanese brands have less support over here? Compare it with DTM. Mercedes and Audi have many fans in Germany and races are well attented (over 100,000 people) but outside Germany the interest is much lower (race at Brands Hatch had around 18,000 visitors).

[Mr Revhead]

im sure they've recently made rule changes to make the supergt cars comparable with the FIA GT cars, and FIA GT cars are now eligible for the super gt class.

[Mr Revhead]

check out the "whats super gt" link
http://supergt.net/en/

[vw_nut]

super gt is ok but i don;t thuink they could match the fia gt1 after seeing them at le mans be interesting if they entered le mans again to see how would do

[AU N EGL]

I have seen some super GT races on TV. They were great. However, I feel it is time for some of these auto manufactures to step up their game and move into LMS, ALMS and FIA GT2 or GT1 racing.

[Satorian]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

I have seen some super GT races on TV. They were great. However, I feel it is time for some of these auto manufactures to step up their game and move into LMS, ALMS and FIA GT2 or GT1 racing.

According to the attendance numbers and at least domestic TV coverage, it'd be time for FIA GT and LMS to move into SuperGT racing.

Pretty much everyone agrees that they put on a fantastic show, the cars are spectacular, the racing hard and fast and the grids filled to the brim.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Satorian

Pretty much everyone agrees that they put on a fantastic show, the cars are spectacular, the racing hard and fast and the grids filled to the brim.

Very true, but to Japan / Asia is not where the majority HIGH PRICED sports cars are sold. Europe and the US are.

Porsche, Ferrari, AM sell more then 50% of their cars they produce to the US market.

I beileve you guys who say the SHOW is great. But is it just a show? and not for marketing purposes of that brand?

Until these GT500 or Super GT race cars get into a LMS or ALMS race ( conform to the rules as well ) we will never know HOW good they really are.

Lap times dont mean squat, which you guys know. Finishing first ahead of other world super sports cars is IMHO the real test.

[Satorian]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Very true, but to Japan / Asia is not where the majority HIGH PRICED sports cars are sold. Europe and the US are.

But what's the use when the people that are supposed to buy them in Western regions don't watch the series?

I beileve you guys who say the SHOW is great. But is it just a show? and not for marketing purposes of that brand?

Of course it's for marketing purposes. All racing except gentlemen racing is for marketing purposes.

Until these GT500 or Super GT race cars get into a LMS or ALMS race ( conform to the rules as well ) we will never know HOW good they really are.

This point defeats itself. If they conformed with FIA/ACO GT1, they wouldn't be SuperGT cars anymore. Which in turn means we won't get to know "how good they really are" either way.

Lap times dont mean squat, which you guys know. Finishing first ahead of other world super sports cars is IMHO the real test.

They could claim exactly the same. I think your western-centric point of view isn't well-represented. Send the GT1 in to the Pukka 1000 on Suzuka then.

[EuropaBambaataa]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Until these GT500 or Super GT race cars get into a LMS or ALMS race ( conform to the rules as well ) we will never know HOW good they really are.

Lap times dont mean squat, which you guys know. Finishing first ahead of other world super sports cars is IMHO the real test.

What about having GT1 cars go to Super GT in GT1 spec and getting their asses handed to them? The Prodrive Ferrari 550 owned by Hitotsuyama Racing was never competitive, and Team Goh gave up trying to run the Maserati MC12 in pre-season testing, because it couldn't get to the GT500 pace without extensive modifications.

[ss_collins]

GT500 is about LMP2 pace - way way quicker than GT1.

I saw them at Fuji last year - fantastic really really entertaining and they put on a great show.

However, I feel it is time for some of these auto manufactures to step up their game and move into LMS, ALMS and FIA GT2 or GT1 racing

why? they believe they have the best tin top series in the world, they certainly have the fastest, and the racing is really good. GT1/GT2 would be a step down. LMS and ALMS do not allow them (though they should)

[ss_collins]

Imagine a DBR9 GT500

[vw_nut]

i just klike to see how good these cars are afainst the best that the fia and other series has to offer

[ThePenguin]

Unless these cars start racing under FIA regulations, we probably will not see the Super GT cars race against American and European GT1 cars like the C6Rs and the DBR9s.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by ThePenguin

Unless these cars start racing under FIA regulations, we probably will not see the Super GT cars race against American and European GT1 cars like the C6Rs and the DBR9s.

Here is the KEY. Running the same rules.

The majority of supper car buys may not watch the ALMS or LMS races, but they do see the adverts generated by racing.

[Speed-King]

I think Super GT500 is much closer to the DTM than to the ACO or FIA GTs. It's basically sports prototypes disguised as road cars and equally targeted not at the Supercar buyers, but at the mainstream market. This is why the GT500 cars are suppossed to look like medium priced performance cars and not like Super cars. Just like in the early years of the new DTM when they ran the Astra-coupé, CLK and TTs. DTM switched back to four door sedans due to its touring car background which doesn't exist in Japan. But even the 350Zs ,NSXs and whatever the Lexi are called are much more mainstream vehicles than Ferrari 550s, DBR9s or Saleens.
So there's no real reason for Japanese manufacturers to enter ALMS/LMS/FIA-GT with those cars. For a mainstream effect there cars would be much better placed in DTM or even NASCAR! Because Super GT has just that standing in Japan. It's a national top-series with a high mainstream appeal.

[pitviper]

If I am not mistaken (and I don't recall right now what track it was) but the GT500 NSX was running times the same as the Team Goh Audi R8.

I think if you take a good look at the GT500 cars, you will get a good idea of what the new P1 regulations are going to look like, and I for one, am ALL FOR IT. These cars are spectacular to look at, they show off the latest cutting edge technology, they are fast, they put on a great show... All of the elements are in place. I have shared ss collins' view of these machines for quite a while now (great RE piece on them, btw sam, I still pick it up from time to time to look back at it).

Imagine for a moment what the LM grid could look like with a set of rules like this... Imagine a Ferrari built to these rules... how about a Pagani, or an Aston Martin, or a Viper? The best from Japan taking on the best from Europe, and the best from the Americas... Cars that are pure beastly prototypes, but have just enough familiarity in their shape that the fan base a real chance to see some steady growth. I love the looks of both the current GT1 cars, as well as the current prototypes, but I certainly see how moving toward the "Super GT" look could really bridge the gap for a lot of fans and boost the track attendance as well as the TV viewership. i don't think I would ever really want it to get to the level of F1, but there is lots of room before that happens. I would love to see a battle like that take place over 24 hours at LM, or over 6 Hours in the LMS, or at Sebring, or PLM... wouldn't you?

pit

[Satorian]

Originally Posted by pitviper

If I am not mistaken (and I don't recall right now what track it was) but the GT500 NSX was running times the same as the Team Goh Audi R8.

One could also compare JLMC and SuperGT times, like the recent Fuji qualifying rounds for example.

Mugen Courage LC70, dry track, cloudy weather: 1.31.065 (driven by SuperGT drivers, Daisuke Ito and Seiji Ara)

Takata Dome NSX: 1.33.066

2 seconds off LMP1 pace at Fuji.

[ss_collins]

Super GT GT500 is far quicker than GT1, as has been said a fully loaded MC12 didn't have a chance agains the big '500s. A Riley Daytona Prototype based car races in the smaller GT300 class the Mooncraft Shiden - so I'd say GT1 was there or there abouts with GT300. Having seen all the major GT classes (bar trans am/grand am) first hand - Super GT is the most entertaining by far.

Why won't it come here - well they are trying to expand it but the cost of getting 40 cars to europe is obscene. But the stated aim of super GT is to be the world premier tin top category.

As for ther chassis even the GT500 cars start off with a standard frame but they can chop it to such a degree to the point where any part outside of the area directly around the driver is bespoke.

[dj choc ice]

in terms of performance regarding superGT cars i would say they are even with a fast well sorted LMP2 car, such as a zytek 07S or lola B07/40 AER.

i would love to see the JGTC cars racing over here in the UK, i for one would sure as hell pay to see them racing, they seem to be a hell of a lot like DTM car's which raises a question.

how would a DTM and JGTC/ superGT car compare in lap times?, both of them on paper i think have similar weight, similar power and so on and produce a similar amount of downforce, would there be big performance difference between a front running DTM car and a front running JGTC car?

i think not, but the GT1 car's could not compare to a JGTC car in terms of speed, not unless with a LM99 style aero package and much larger air restrictor, ala, 25% larger restrictor.

[Speed-King]

DTM cars are still closer regulated than Super GT cars I think, after all they restarted it with a cost containment reglement back in 2000. Current DTM cars are a little faster than FIA GT1 cars so they should be still a bit behind the Super GT machines. But I think either Audi or Mercedes could bring a DTM car up to Super GT speed if the sanction body gave them the permission for the necessary changes. Maybe having 500HP instead of 460 would be enough.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Nivola

What does everyone think of SUPERGT?

I was lucky enough to be at the Malaysian Round on the weekend. I must say I could not believe the quality of the show. The standard in the cars was stagering and the respect from everyone in the pits was amazing.

Im just wondering what everyone else thinks of this series?

Stale, it needs foreign manufactuers or it wil continue to only interest it's home crowd.

[minimangler]

Originally Posted by JAG

Stale, it needs foreign manufactuers or it wil continue to only interest it's home crowd.

That's kind of the point- Japan is very "closed" in that in tends to be very happy going on its own. Look at F Nippon as well.
I think it is superb, but the rulebook needs to be clearer- i like the idea of draconian weight though, really settles things. And as for GT1/GT500, isn't the JLOC lambo in GT300?