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18 Dec 2013, 14:59 (Ref:3345485) | #26 | |
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18 Dec 2013, 15:23 (Ref:3345495) | #27 | |
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I wonder how many experienced flag marshals will decide to walk away from the sport as a result this load of 'used food' from the MSA.
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18 Dec 2013, 15:23 (Ref:3345497) | #28 | |||
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Silverstone has Safety Car boards that need to be held - with 2 yellows to wave as well it will not be possible. I know of at least two flag marshals who do not have full use of one arm - I don't see how they will cope? I am sure that a number of other problems will occur to other people so discussions WILL be needed. |
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18 Dec 2013, 15:24 (Ref:3345499) | #29 | ||
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It begs the question: If this option was up for consultation, whom did they consult?
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18 Dec 2013, 15:27 (Ref:3345501) | #30 | |
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Practicalities of multi-tasking aside, I think that:
1. The waved green is a good decision. 2. The yellows, whether single, double, waved or stationary will only work if they are acknowledged and acted upon by drivers. Perhaps the change will result in a bit more notice being taken - whether for a long time or not, if even a little bit of improved driving is the result, that's a good thing. Now turning to the practicalities: I'd like to see an MSA trainer explain exactly how I'm supposed to do a double waved yellow, note car numbers, write a report *and* call in an incident at the same time. In my not-so-experienced opinion this is one specific time that "do your best" is simply not good enough. I'm off to practice waving a flag with my nostrils... |
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18 Dec 2013, 15:27 (Ref:3345502) | #31 | ||
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18 Dec 2013, 15:33 (Ref:3345503) | #32 | |
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You still need a double yellow at the site of the incident.
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18 Dec 2013, 15:41 (Ref:3345506) | #33 | |||
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Single yellow, radio "my" incident then upgrade to the double. If I'm on double I'll ignore throwing the red flag on the grounds that drivers have ample chance to see it before/after the incident and that by having double waved out by definition they should be prepared to stop. I'd prop the SC board against the fence where possible and go with the flags. As per above, if I'm alone the flags take priority over displaying any "frippery & baubles" such as boards that would be out at the preceding / subsequent posts. |
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18 Dec 2013, 15:45 (Ref:3345509) | #34 | |
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18 Dec 2013, 15:54 (Ref:3345513) | #35 | ||
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You're right it doesn't, but by definition these propagate in both directions so would cover the circuit.
Also, if totally on my own I would take the time to agree beforehand with adjacent posts to "play it if you see it at any post" for SC and Red flags if they see me on the double yellow. A little bit of common sense goes a long way. |
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18 Dec 2013, 15:54 (Ref:3345515) | #36 | ||
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Having sent a lengthy written submission to the MSA as part of the consultation I certainly don't see any merit in going over it all again now particularly as none of the comments I know were sent seem to have had any impact within the MSA ....
I am sure that more than a few issues will be faced as we adopt these new regulations All I will say is Dave |
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Dave Eley Flag & Experienced Marshal |
18 Dec 2013, 16:01 (Ref:3345517) | #37 | |
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Actually, this pushes things back onto the MSA Stewards at meetings, doesn't it?
If at the site of a hypothetical incident the following are needed: Double yellow SC board White and/or surface Radio call Form filling ...and there's only a single person, then it falls on the steward to decide whether or not the circuit's manning level is "adequate", doesn't it? It's certainly going to make incident followups interesting. "Were double waved flags being displayed?"... "Had RC been informed?"... "Which cars were involved in the start of the incident?"... and so on, and so forth. |
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Walk a mile in someone else's shoes. When they realise you have, you'll be a mile away and you'll have their shoes. |
18 Dec 2013, 16:08 (Ref:3345520) | #38 | |||
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"[..]Great danger. Slow down considerably. Be prepared to suddenly change from the projected racing line, or take other evasive action including stopping if necessary.[..]" "trumps" the white/surface flag. |
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18 Dec 2013, 16:09 (Ref:3345521) | #39 | ||
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After a quick phone call to the wife I'm now getting an extra arm for Christmas.
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18 Dec 2013, 16:17 (Ref:3345523) | #40 | |||
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Anyone brave enough to drop their yellows in preference for a red when there's marshals working trackside? |
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18 Dec 2013, 16:22 (Ref:3345524) | #41 | |||
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Quote:
Quote:
Except, it seems, at the MSA. I am only trying to suggest some of the questions that flag trainers might need to have answers for at the 2014 training days. Quite glad I'm no longer in that position. Good luck to those who running the sessions - might be tempted to go along to the Oulton Park training day just to see how the questions get answered. |
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18 Dec 2013, 16:29 (Ref:3345529) | #42 | |||
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I think we are going to have to prioritize. Double waved yellows take precedent over anything else if marshals are working trackside (or in a gravel trap close to the edge of the track) Making notes and form filling will take second place. If there is minimal information on the reports the clerks will have to, rely on cctv/come for a chat/make something up (delete as applicable ) Last edited by Stack; 18 Dec 2013 at 16:35. |
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18 Dec 2013, 16:35 (Ref:3345531) | #43 | |
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The 2014 Competitors Blue Book as currently posted on the MSA site does not appear to show any changes to flagging. Cannot find any mention of double waved yellows.
15.1.1. At an incident where the track is obstructed, or marshals are working at the trackside, the following signals will be used: (a) A STATIONARY Yellow at the post before a WAVED Yellow. (b) A waved Yellow flag at the post immediately preceding the incident. NB: In very serious cases, this flag may be supplemented by an additional waved yellow flag at a preceding post. (The waved yellow flag may also be supplemented by flashing yellow warning lights). (c) A stationary Green flag at the post immediately after the incident. (d) If the incident is well off the track and marshals are not working at the trackside, the incident may be indicated by a stationary yellow flag, followed by a stationary green flag, or by a Hazard Area board. |
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18 Dec 2013, 16:39 (Ref:3345535) | #44 | ||
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As the newsletter is the most recent and specifies the changes take place on 1st January 2014 it obsoletes any previous publications.
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18 Dec 2013, 17:04 (Ref:3345549) | #45 | |||
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Quote:
What he said! |
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18 Dec 2013, 17:44 (Ref:3345557) | #46 | |||
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Quote:
http://www.msauk.org/uploadedfiles/n...ws_44_1213.pdf |
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18 Dec 2013, 17:50 (Ref:3345558) | #47 | ||
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Yep, just read it. The idiots have decided to ignore the marshals (and reality)...as usual.
I think that's me finished then. I enjoyed it while it lasted. Steve |
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18 Dec 2013, 17:55 (Ref:3345559) | #48 | ||
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Having discussed it, I feel that the regulations do have their advantages:
It will take a bit more planning performing the double-waved-yellow/phone-it-in dance , although in my experience posts either side will often realise this and answer the radio on behalf of the engaged post. |
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18 Dec 2013, 18:33 (Ref:3345578) | #49 | |||
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Quote:
Dave |
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Dave Eley Flag & Experienced Marshal |
18 Dec 2013, 19:41 (Ref:3345611) | #50 | ||
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What makes you think we'll have any answers? Seriously, if you have any specific points you may want to raise, PM me and I'll try to find out the answers beforehand and incorporate them into the training. Better to have time to think and research than make something up on the spot.
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