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17 Feb 2016, 18:36 (Ref:3615525) | #26 | ||
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Is the angle of belts mandatory or recommended? If it's mandatory, how is it measured accurately and from what datum?
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Born in the Midlands, made in the Royal Navy |
17 Feb 2016, 19:14 (Ref:3615533) | #27 | ||
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Answered my own question
Ok, just checked the blue book. Page 189 of the 2016 BB refers. Belts must not be at an angle to the horizontal greater than 20deg above the horizontal plane but it is recommended only that belts do not exceed an angle of 20 deg below the horizontal plane and should have a max angle downwards of 45 degrees to the horizontal. The horizontal plane being the line through the seat belt holes in the back rest of the seat. Hope that makes sense. |
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17 Feb 2016, 19:21 (Ref:3615536) | #28 | ||
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Andy there may be a typo in your post. I have never seen a recommendation for mounting shoulder belts ABOVE the horizontal plane. Belts mounted this way do not work well at all, they slip to the sides and your torso goes right through the middle. Perhaps I have misundersood your post and if so I apologize.
This may be useful. It covers many aspects of cockpit safety including belt mounting specs with and without a FHR. And it trys to not be a sales tool for Simpson or HANS . We have two versions - YouTube video and PDF. The PDF is only about 4 MB and the Dropbox link should allow you to download and save a copy. “15 Minutes Can Save Your Life” - A multi-media presentation on easy ways to improve cockpit safety in race cars. Video – 15 Minutes Can Save Your Life PDF – 15 Minutes Can Save Your Life Thank you, GM Last edited by Gary Milgrom; 17 Feb 2016 at 19:27. Reason: Add info |
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18 Feb 2016, 00:13 (Ref:3615591) | #29 | ||
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Quote:
"Use 2" belts, unless you are over 200 lbs or doing over 210km/h, then you should use 3" belts." ???!!! |
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18 Feb 2016, 01:17 (Ref:3615604) | #30 | ||
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Quote:
https://www.msauk.org/assets/fhrguidance.pdf Scrutineers probably should be at the first stage and random stages after that. Stage Commander well with his rights to refuse anyone at the line with incorrect safety gear. Must have done his head in with so many ruining the 'flow' of the stage. Is there a serious problem with the HANS documentation or are folks not bothered to read it? Since its been around for twenty years, you would have thought it was well known... |
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18 Feb 2016, 08:21 (Ref:3615656) | #31 | ||
The Honourable Mallett
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I've been using one for many years now. I keep the helmet and HANs connected and put them on before I get in the car. Then I just have to worry about the belts. Egress and entry to the car are slightly compromised but I at least know that all is connected properly.
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I've decided to stop reaching out to people. I'm just going to contact them instead. |
18 Feb 2016, 10:28 (Ref:3615691) | #32 | ||
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I know that scrutineers are good but is it possible to tell who drilled a hole?
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"The problem with internet quotes is that you can't always depend on their accuracy" - Abraham Lincoln, 1864 |
18 Feb 2016, 11:18 (Ref:3615703) | #33 | |
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IIRC when I bought a Simpson Hybrid a couple of years ago, it came with instructions on how and where to drill the holes in the helmet if they werent already there. I actually followed this through to see if they were supposed to be in the same place as the HANS posts that were already in the helmet
The Hybrid quick release clips are easy enough to clip into place whilst sat in the car on your own. Plus they are either on or not, there is no half way house. I tend to belt up with them disconnected then clip into place. I usually load myself into the car and belt up without external help and havent had any problems, except at Goodwood when the drivers briefing overran to such an extent that there wasnt actually time to get the belts on before cars were leaving the assembly area |
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18 Feb 2016, 13:13 (Ref:3615727) | #34 | |||
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Quote:
The comment about 3" belts for large drivers and high speeds is aimed at drag racers. Thank You, GM |
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19 Feb 2016, 10:48 (Ref:3615948) | #35 | ||
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Gary,
Went to my local, excellent motor sport supplier yesterday (Road & Stage, Morecambe) to try out some FHRs. As you say, wearing a 'classic' HANS I felt that forward and downwards movement was unrestricted, to my surprise, with less but adequate side to side movement. I also tried a Hybrid, and found it far more restrictive in both directions, especially one, because the FIA homologation label jammed under the clip that allows the strap to slide! Also, the chest strap worried me, as it seemed inevitable that it would ride up, under my armpits, when I'm sure it is supposed to sit lower down, across the wide part of the chest. Am I wrong? My plan is to get my race car (it's also road legal) out, take down to R&S and sit in it while I try them again. I now can better forgive the rally crews for their apparent rebellion! Fixing the tether clips is far more difficult that expected. No doubt easier with practice and use. John |
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19 Feb 2016, 11:04 (Ref:3615953) | #36 | |||
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Quote:
The routine is now: Balaclava on HANS on Get in car Plug intercom into helmet Put helmet on Belts on (but not tight) Clip on tethers Check belts are properly seated on HANS Tighten belts Have fun |
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19 Feb 2016, 18:45 (Ref:3616091) | #37 | |
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Gary,
Thanks for posting the link to your video, I have been using a Hybrid Pro Rage for the last three years and recently had the tethers changed by your agent at Indy to the FIA ones. My restraint doesn't carry the FIA certification logo, just the SFI one, which previously wasn't a problem, but now that they are compulsory in UK I will need the FIA certification label. Can I send my restraint back to you for recertification, or do I need to buy a new one? I have emailed via the contact form on the Simpson website, but haven't received a reply as yet. Many Thanks, Cliff |
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21 Feb 2016, 11:16 (Ref:3616461) | #38 | ||
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Even better than Gary's test bed pictures, this video shows an in-car view of a sudden-stop rally incident, where one crew was in an FHR and the other not.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g40YatgE_CE John |
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21 Feb 2016, 18:23 (Ref:3616520) | #39 | ||
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John,
That is the very in car footage that made me decide that I had to start wearing HANS. |
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22 Feb 2016, 08:06 (Ref:3616661) | #40 | |||
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Quote:
The footage is very stark. N. |
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22 Feb 2016, 22:29 (Ref:3616869) | #41 | |||
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Quote:
HOWEVER.... My understanding is that given the HANS is designed to work in that range of belt angles, one would be particularly stupid to do other than convert the car to comply. Too shallow an angle and the belt will slip off the device, too steep and it is likely to break your shoulder even in an accident where the FHR is not designed to work. It's like fitting a seat and only using pop rivets to hold it in place. you wouldn't do it because the consequences of doing it wrong are more dangerous than the consequences of not doing it. |
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Midgetman - known as Max Tyler to the world. MaxAttaq! |
23 Feb 2016, 09:19 (Ref:3616966) | #42 | ||
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That's extremely sensibly Max.
It will, of course, never catch on with some people. Jim |
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24 Feb 2016, 20:38 (Ref:3617472) | #43 | |||
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Quote:
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25 Feb 2016, 12:42 (Ref:3617675) | #44 | |||
Racer
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Posts: 340
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Quote:
I tried a FHR at Tweeks the other week and the issue to me seemed to be the space taken up at the rear of the head. This I think would make wearing and driving very difficult in my car the way it is The issue for me is purely space but I see that Dave in his Grantura is managing so it may be a case of seeing how it all works through the season. N. |
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25 Feb 2016, 17:36 (Ref:3617725) | #45 | |
Racer
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 100
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the Simpson Hybrid type may give you more room behind your head.....worth a look
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27 Feb 2016, 15:36 (Ref:3618251) | #46 | |||
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Quote:
Certainly does for me when I tried one at RaceRetro yesterday. I took my Bell open face helmet with me to try different Hans devices, but none of them worked for me. They all tended to push the back of the helmet forward and with the seat angle I was most concerned about (Porsche 917 and 30 degree lay back seat) were impossible to use in a simulated driving position on the floor with the wall acting as my bulkhead. Finally, and feeling a little worried and desperate, I tried a Simpson harness, and bingo, it was perfect, and whats more it is totally useable at any angle and in all three of my cars. Little in the way of framing, more in strapping, so I thought wow, this will be a huge saving in money over a Hans ......... wrong .............. £495 was the best price I could get. One should not put a price tag on safety, but I was totally amazed by that figure. |
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27 Feb 2016, 17:08 (Ref:3618261) | #47 | |
Racer
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 100
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I have the quick release Simpson fittings rather than the normal Hans fittings and find them to be really easy. Glad you found the Hybrid worth a look
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5 Mar 2016, 18:37 (Ref:3620255) | #48 | ||
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Just been reading about the new Schroth 'SHR Flex' due soon, which appears to be another device that can cope with different seat angles, and without having to be adjusted in order to so. Development and improvements continue.....
US retail is $575, so expect it will be about the same in Sterling! Info- https://www.schrothracing.com (more info if you click on 'pre order now') Last edited by Mike Bell; 5 Mar 2016 at 18:42. |
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