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18 May 2013, 13:06 (Ref:3249371) | #326 | ||
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When Henry Ford II wanted to kick Enzo Ferrariās ass he did not instruct his minions to build a Formula 1 car. |
18 May 2013, 15:35 (Ref:3249429) | #327 | ||
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Well, this discusion is something you will need start in a pair of years so get used to. With more variety available, the space will be more scarce in 2015+.
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18 May 2013, 15:44 (Ref:3249434) | #328 | |||
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GTE needs the wealthy AM's as things stand today, and they probably always will. This is why the AM's need to be catered for, and not forced to race in a fake class, just because mfg's want all PRO lineups in their works cars. Use the GT3 classifications and get quick AM's with dough to the PRO cars, and everything will get smoother and better IMO. |
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18 May 2013, 16:07 (Ref:3249448) | #329 | ||
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If you need another argument against the farce that's GTE-Am, watch the ELMS race... Ram Racing getting away with giving their Am-slot to Matt Griffin is beyond ridiculous.
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Ceterum censeo GTE-Am esse delendam. |
18 May 2013, 20:52 (Ref:3249555) | #330 | ||
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18 May 2013, 20:58 (Ref:3249558) | #331 | |||
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18 May 2013, 22:49 (Ref:3249589) | #332 | ||
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That is not the problem. The problem os the structure of the current AM class, wich is only there to give better second hand value to the PRO cars. The class was instigated to increase longivity to the GTE cars, because the cars are few and far between. I get that they (ACO) didn't want GTE to go the same way GT1 did, but seriously, they could've done something else. Like they are trying to fo now.
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18 May 2013, 23:03 (Ref:3249593) | #333 | |
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...where that particular limitation did not apply. Although I do wonder whether they still would have turned away cars this year if more had wanted to enter - last year they said they wanted to use the old pits for support races, I don't think that would have been an issue this time round with the support being 10 Porsche cup cars and nothing else.
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When Henry Ford II wanted to kick Enzo Ferrariās ass he did not instruct his minions to build a Formula 1 car. |
18 May 2013, 23:05 (Ref:3249594) | #334 | |||
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18 May 2013, 23:31 (Ref:3249608) | #335 | |||
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19 May 2013, 00:23 (Ref:3249632) | #336 | ||
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Probae esti in segetem sunt deteriorem datae fruges, tamen ipsae suaptae enitent |
19 May 2013, 00:42 (Ref:3249638) | #337 | |||
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I agree, I'd like an amateur to get into the overall GTE podium if they beat the pros. |
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Nitropteron - Fly fast or get crushed! by NaBUrean Prodooktionz naburu38.itch.io |
19 May 2013, 07:20 (Ref:3249681) | #338 | ||
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Yes it is. the AM class is not made to please the AM drivers, but to please the works teams. I suspect that many of the AM's would prefer to race new cars.
Do it like this instead: PRO (platinum, gold drivers), PRO/AM (one platinum/gold driver), AM (no platinum/gold drivers), and let them race what they can afford, in a single class. |
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19 May 2013, 12:57 (Ref:3249790) | #339 | |
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As a stop-gap solution it wasn't a bad one. Using old cars means that all the teams don't have to pay a lot more (as they would of the factories would have to build a lot more cars) which gets more cars on the grid. It also gives pro-am teams a chance at a podium which improves sponsorship possibilities possibly.
I think we would all prefer a formula which was affordable, profitable, and not segregated by finance: a more normal GTO/GTU or something, where teams could compete for class honors whether or not the drivers were full-time. However, look how long it is taking to devise the next GT formula, somehow involving GT3 and GTE , pro and am, BoP and built to rules ... FIA/ACO needed a solution immediately---they couldn't wait for two years while factories and organizers bicker. Understanding a decision doesn't make it more correct, but somehow less objectionable. Hopefully ACO/FIA can come up with a stable, sensible rule set, but on the other hand, how could they know that GT3 would explode and factories would prefer it, and that GTE would wither? Hopefully by 2106 ACOP/FIA will have everything balanced out in both GT and prototypes. |
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19 May 2013, 16:04 (Ref:3249862) | #340 | |||
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As far as credibility is concerned: IMHO there is simply no place for that "participation-ribbon/everybodygetsatrophy" kind of mentality in top level racing"... I am not against Ams... not at all. If they have the guts to go toe to toe with the pros, more power to them! (If they don't, there's always club racing.) |
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Ceterum censeo GTE-Am esse delendam. |
19 May 2013, 16:35 (Ref:3249885) | #341 | |||
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The GTE-Am class really doesn't bother me, because there is going to be Am drivers anyway, they may as well have their own class. |
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19 May 2013, 16:43 (Ref:3249888) | #342 | |||
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And getting the Z4 out of GTE where it - going by the performance of the roadcar - has no right to be, wouldn't be a bad thing either. |
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Ceterum censeo GTE-Am esse delendam. |
19 May 2013, 17:48 (Ref:3249945) | #343 | |||||
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Came on, WEC, it's an international champ, should not be for babies. |
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19 May 2013, 17:53 (Ref:3249949) | #344 | |||
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Pro, Pro/Am, Am might work for BES and GT3 championships where there are at least 30 cars but the GT field in the WEC and Le Mans is too small for three separate divisions. IMO there is no difference between having two separate classes (Pro and Am) and having one class with two trophies. It is the exact same thing! |
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19 May 2013, 17:59 (Ref:3249954) | #345 | |||
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I don't see a "everybodygetsatrophy" mentality. The WEC is attracting amateurs/investors by giving them a chance to compete for a class win. Tell me, what would you rather have at Le Mans. Some cars with all-pro lineups and some cars with amateurs. Or, the days of GT2 where two pros race with one amateur and their chances of winning are reduced. |
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19 May 2013, 18:18 (Ref:3249966) | #346 | |||
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ELMS had to abolish GTE-Pro because it would have ended up with two pathetically weak GT-classes rather than one strong one. |
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Ceterum censeo GTE-Am esse delendam. |
19 May 2013, 18:19 (Ref:3249968) | #347 | ||
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19 May 2013, 18:24 (Ref:3249970) | #348 | |||
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I'm saying in general, almost all amateurs are now in the Am class allowing for full pro lineups in the Pro class. |
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19 May 2013, 18:33 (Ref:3249973) | #349 | |||
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Clearly, that is some time away still, seeing how strong both GTE and GT3 currently is, but I do fear that 2013 is its peak. The downside of rule changes is always a loss of participants. |
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19 May 2013, 18:38 (Ref:3249976) | #350 | ||
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How are they "allowing" for that exactly? There used to be all-pro-cars in the past, and not just a few of them. And whatever the teams that even run Pro and Am make from running the Am-cars is certainly not enough to fund the all-Pro cars. So I really fail to see a connection between the creation of the Am-class and the existance of all-Pro lineups.
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Ceterum censeo GTE-Am esse delendam. |
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