WMSC hearing - McLaren fined $100 million/excluded from WCC (MERGED)

[Ralf's Girl]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

I do wonder how many of us, in Coughlan's situation, would return these files.

He doesn't seem to have handled it very well, though - if his testimony is accurate, he told Stepney not to give him any more documents, McLaren set up a firewall to block Stepney's emails, then Coughlan went and met up with him, supposedly to tell him he wasn't comfortable taking Ferrari documents, yet managed to come away from the meeting with even more of them! There's no justification for taking more Ferrari documents if he was so concerned about having them in his possession.

[Knowlesy]

I would agree he hasn't handled this well.

As a result, I hope he doesn't drag his team down with him.

[kartracer41]

Curiosity of a part or parts from another team is a poor excuse. We all know F1 is about figuring out what other teams are doing, but in legal ways. All the way from the days when they were watching the onboard feeds to figure the other teams gear and such, to now each new aero device quickly makes it's ways to other teams cars. So when information, confidential information, turns into the hands of a different team's engineer, his curiosity of knowing what is going on there, is going to lead to something down the road. You don't just look at something and forget.

[Ralf's Girl]

Originally Posted by kartracer41

So when information, confidential information, turns into the hands of a different team's engineer, his curiosity of knowing what is going on there, is going to lead to something down the road. You don't just look at something and forget.

But if Coughlan didn't obtain the documents until March, we know that McLaren had already built a pretty damn fast car already. So at this point Ferrari will find it very difficult to prove that McLaren have actually benefited from any member of their staff having access to Ferrari's technical information, which is why I can't see McLaren getting thrown out of either this year's or next year's championship.

[chunterer]

But for everything to get to this stage with all the ensuing drama, there is going to be a pretty negative outcome for one of the parties involved.

I bet the Prodrive situation's all of a sudden going to get more active if the worse case scenario happens for McLaren!!

[MrTTraces]

Whatever the outcome, it's going to provide an interesting back drop to this weekends race.

Lets hope a decent race takes our minds away from all this.

[climb]

Originally Posted by Ralf's Girl

But if Coughlan didn't obtain the documents until March, we know that McLaren had already built a pretty damn fast car already. ....

No doubt Macs had already made a fast car; but they also got aware of Ferrari's technical choices and strategies, which gave them an unfair advantage. This is the real point, not McLaren cars being fast.

BTW: in march Ferrari looked faster by lightyears, then things changed quite quickly for F1...

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by climb

but they also got aware of Ferrari's technical choices and strategies, which gave them an unfair advantage.

But settings or strategies that worked on the Ferrari wouldn't translate to the McLaren - the cars are fundamentally different so blindly following Ferraris data wouldn't work.

[kartracer41]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

But settings or strategies that worked on the Ferrari wouldn't translate to the McLaren - the cars are fundamentally different so blindly following Ferraris data wouldn't work.

But knowing how Ferrari achieved a certain outcome could easily show McLaren how to achieve similar results. They don't have to copy anything, just understanding what the other team is trying to accomplish can be a great and unfair advantage.

[Austinspace75]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

But settings or strategies that worked on the Ferrari wouldn't translate to the McLaren - the cars are fundamentally different so blindly following Ferraris data wouldn't work.

Absolutely. But the point is I suppose that in having 'extra' knowledge about how Ferrari works its strategy in relation to the car settings 'may' have provided McLaren with opportunities to exploit weaknesses in Ferrari's plans at moments they wouldn't have otherwise known about. Remember, winning in the modern F1 era is as much about picking your moment and/or your strategy to best exploit your opponents weaknesses as it is about having the out and out fastest car.

[Ralf's Girl]

Originally Posted by climb

No doubt Macs had already made a fast car; but they also got aware of Ferrari's technical choices and strategies, which gave them an unfair advantage. This is the real point, not McLaren cars being fast.

BTW: in march Ferrari looked faster by lightyears, then things changed quite quickly for F1...

But things have changed from race to race - some tracks Ferrari have a clear advantage on, others are definite 'McLaren tracks'. It's not as simple as saying that McLaren suddenly got loads better at the same time Coughlan obtained the Ferrari documents.

According to the BBC website, the WMSC are currently considering their decision.

[Knowlesy]

The only time Ferrari looked "faster by lightyears" was in Melbourne. A one-off.

The only times they've come close to that feat was France, Silverstone and Turkey. Races, incidentally, where McLaren will have "already benefitted".

[climb]

many a poster underlined my "BTW", but my point is what i wrote in the previous lines: getting documents revealing an opponent's strategies gives an unfair advantage anyhow and anyways, period.

[mjstallard]

Balls. Well, that's it for Formula One for me. Thank you and goodnight Max.

[mjstallard]

Five Live are saying that the explusion hasn't been announced - it's inferences from what has been said. Hold onto your hats, it's not over yet... :/

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by mjstallard

Five Live are saying that the explusion hasn't been announced - it's inferences from what has been said. Hold onto your hats, it's not over yet... :/

Good point. No reputable news source has the outcome yet

[Knowlesy]

An utterly moronic decision.

[rdjones]

www.planet-f1.com are running the same story as Autosport, I have to say I am shock at this news

[Ryan_Briscoe1]

oi everyone go put some money on kimi to win this years championship

[paddy]

If this is true I will find something else to do at weekends whilst the leaders in sporting behaviour (Ferrari) dominate the sport!

[marcel82]

good thing I haven't wasted my time watching the last five GP's, if this is true

[kartingdad]

What a clever decision by the FIA. They ought to be charged with bringing the sport into disrepute.

I'm no particular fan of Mclaren, but surely this should have been sorted out away from the public arena. Just gets my gander up when the blazers get involved, and in particular Mad Max.

If he spent half as much effort into making the sport a bit more interesting on the track instead of trying to get Ferrari to win the title then the world of F! would be a better place.

Ego tripping muppets, the lot of them I say.

[pirenzo]

What a pathetic decision.
I can't help but feel it's for civil courts to decide to true legality of what has happened behind the closed doors of McLaren and Ferrari's factory, and that it is for the FIA to rule in the best interests of the sport, the fans and the spectacle, not the offended team.

If I were Ron Dennis now I'd be on the phone to Dave Richards. Ferrari vs Prodrive next year anyone?

EDIT: hmm, in light of Knowlesy's post above, maybe not??

[mjstallard]

I don't think I should air my feelings on this as it has rather annoyed me, to put it mildly.

I can see this is going to drag on and on and on through appeals, the civil courts, etc. I'm sick to death of it.

Can ITV or the BBC get some decent live open wheel motorsport without politics please? And no bloody FIA.

[Ryan_Briscoe1]

if they cheated then they deserve it. cant see the FIA excluding them if they werent 100% sure.